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EducateWorthington.org

The 912 Project - Glenn Beck

912 Group of Central Ohio

Please let me know if you'd like your link added

mattnaugle:  you are right..natural evolution does not always work out. Selection of valuable traits is the basis of the theory.  Thus, just as the Neanerthals the neo cons will in time fade out (unfortunately taking a lot of others with them)

the shadow does know  :ph34r:  

I think you are mistaken, shadow. Neocons were birthed out of the Cold War but it's been 15 years since the Cold War ended, 15 years since the Soviet threat faded away...and neocons are stronger than ever before. What makes you think a downfall is anywhere near?

mightystrauss.

Fifty years is but an eyeblink on the face of history (I like that phrase) and the neocons are over-extending us.  The rest of the world is reacting and we can't be everywhere at the same time with the "big stick". There are problems in this hemisphere, Brazil and Venezuela (1/3, I think of our oil) are making noises , problems in Africa, our friends Berlusconi (Italy) loses power, Blair is chastised, and then there is the economic situation with China and India etc. etc.   It is only a matter of time when the US will have to rethink its position in the world.  It might not be pleasant but it is inevitable

The Shadow knows  :ph34r:  

While I agree with you that we cannot afford to be overconfident and that we must always remain alert, I think that if anything, this is another reason to support neoconservatism. We can't afford to sit back and do nothing. We need to intervene in the Third World problem zones, especially within our own hemisphere, and we must have no compunction about it.

On that note, I highly recommend Max Boot's The Savage Wars of Peace--one of the best books I have ever read.

[Edmund Burke]

How quickly they forget.  Not so long ago we had two superpower adversaries, China and the USSR.  Most of the world was embroiled in communist insurgency, and it looked for all the world like we were losing the Cold War (Carter's America circa 1978).  If we had listened to Liberals like yourself, Shadow, we would have given up hope and "accommodated" the enemy.

America has problems, but no one (not even the neo-cons) are suggesting we use military might to impose our will globally.  Different regions hold different levels of importance, and require different tools.  Since conservatives of all stripes have a much more viable view of human nature, I think they will be the survivors...liberals and Marxists are going the way of the dodo.  

Dain...Ah the labels again...nowhere  did I suggested "accomodation" but the neo-con's concepts embedded in the "New American century" manifesto envision a hegemony that I do not consider possible.  http://www.newamericancentury.org/.  

The Shadow Knows  :ph34r:  

Dain...Ah the labels again...nowhere  did I suggested "accomodation" but the neo-con's concepts embedded in the "New American century" manifesto envision a hegemony that I do not consider possible.  http://www.newamericancentury.org/.  

The Shadow Knows  :ph34r:

 You don't consider it possible? It already is.

Go hang out with Pat Buchanan, he might appreciate you.

I also have a problem with neocons, but I still am incredibly annoyed with the shadow.

The Naugle Knows  :ph34r:
The Naugle Knows  :ph34r:
The Naugle Knows  :ph34r:
The Naugle Knows  :ph34r:
The Naugle Knows  :ph34r:
The Naugle Knows  :ph34r:
The Naugle Knows  :ph34r:
The Naugle Knows  :ph34r:
The Naugle Knows  :ph34r:
The Naugle Knows  :ph34r:
The Naugle Knows  :ph34r:
The Naugle Knows  :ph34r:
The Naugle Knows  :ph34r:  

[Edmund Burke]

Shadow, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...it's a duck!  You have all the hallmarks of a "soft" liberal...not hard leftist, but a believer in the power of the State to reshape society juxtaposed against an odd lack of faith in the U.S.'s role in the world.  In reality, if the U.S. were everything the liberals wanted it to be (i.e., a command society), then they'd be all for American involvement in the world.

You can't fool me...Dain really does know!  B)  

You have all the hallmarks of a "soft" liberal...not hard leftist, but a believer in the power of the State to reshape society

But Dain, you believe it's the state's responsiblity to shape society as well.  i don't think this makes a person a Liberal or Conservative, I think it makes them a statist or authoritarian.  What makes people in America Liberals or Conservatives is the way the want govt. to do the shaping.

And Naugle,

I'm glad to see I'm no longer the most annoying townhall member  

 

[Edmund Burke]

Ah, the keyword here is "reshape," Bob.  I see the state as a supporter of civil society...just like water running downhill, it's easy enough for civil society to become vulnerable to stupidities and vulgar appetites.  We need law to prevent that.  As I've said often enough, I see a complex interdependency between government and society's other institutions.  The Left, however, sees our society as deeply flawed and wants to enslave all other institutions to the State (which represents the Left's will to power).   No conservative would desire that.

I just don't think you'll ever understand conservativism, Bob.  The real difference is between people who understand human nature (Conservatives) and radicals who blame human problems on its institutions (Liberals ...generally economies and "tradition", for libertarians it's generally "the State.").  

You and authoritarianism...what a laugh.  Do you realize you use that word the way Liberals use "fascism" and "racism?"  Radicals always need a boogeyman!  :lol:

The Shadow smiles    just a little one.  

Lets see...mightystrauss feels that The Shadow should go hang out with Pat Buchanan that would make The Shadow a right winger...

Dain feels that The Shadow is a "soft liberal" (whatever that is).

mattnaugle feels That the Shadow is annoying (and uses a lot of band width to say so)
-----------------------
but, seriously, states do have the power to shape societies.  That is what Bush is trying to do in Iraq, shaping a democratic society through an elected government.  Shaping of societies through the state occurred under the Romans, in Communist Russia and China etc. etc.  The state shapes by the priviledges it grants and the restrictions it imposes.

Liberals would like America's involvement in the world to be in the true American value system of compassion and helping hand,  fighting disease and hunger, true freedom (not supporting "friendly" tyrants) without the concurrent (and impossible) imposition of American "standards".  Libertarians should like that.

The Shadow is distressed to be thought annoying but, The Shadow knows :ph34r:  

[Edmund Burke]

Shadow, what about the American values of hard work, self-reliance, color-blindness, faith in God...etc.  You, like most liberals, are really full of it.  What liberals want most is to be in power and to legislate their likes and dislikes.

Libertarians are generally too ideological to understand that someone WILL rule, and in doing so will legislate their likes and dislikes.  As I told Butler, I'd much rather that the ruling power be us and not a bunch of parasites living on the coasts.    

American Values?  Settled by many different peoples, predominately Christian.  Crushed the native populations.  Built an industrial giant on the backs of new arrivals.  Built a military to preserve and protect.  And in the end, has become the best of the Empire of English speaking peoples.  Blessed by geography and circumstance.   [In no particular order: Remember, Santa Anna would have sold us more of Mexico, had we wanted it.  Napoleon would have sold us Mexico if he could have got away with it.  The Russians sold us Alaska because they could not defend it and they thought the British were going to take it away from them.  And we paid off Spain for Andrew Jackson's conquering Florida.  Lets not forget the treaties with Britain that gave vast territories to the USA because they thought, at the time, that the British and the USA would reconcile.]

Still the best place on earth to be born, the USA.  The hate America crowd will never admit that.