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EducateWorthington.org

The 912 Project - Glenn Beck

912 Group of Central Ohio

Please let me know if you'd like your link added

[The standard response of the Left is to stick their heads in the sand and claim that the above situation is purely hypothetical and unlikely to occur in real life.]

Torture can be a moral, practical procedure
By: Manan Shah

Recently, there has been a heated debate in the war on terror regarding the use of coercive interrogation techniques. Those who realize that such techniques can help us win the war on terror are fighting against not only those who oppose it, but societal taboos and accusations of barbarism, as well as the mistaken belief that somehow it makes us "like the terrorists." However, if using such techniques gives us a distinct advantage and allows us to save innocent lives, then we should not let our emotional reservations stand in the way of winning the war.

There are several hypothetical situations in which the use of torture would not only be acceptable, but morally required. First is the widely known "ticking time bomb" scenario. In this situation, a terrorist cell has planted a bomb somewhere in a crowded city. We apprehend the terrorist, but he is unwilling to supply us the information we need to save innocent lives. Is the president justified in taking whatever action he sees fit in order to protect the lives of the citizens he has sworn to defend? I do not think that any jury in the country would convict someone who uses torture to save lives under this scenario.

The standard response of the Left is to stick their heads in the sand and claim that the above situation is purely hypothetical and unlikely to occur in real life. That statement is debatable, but even accepting it for a moment, it serves an extremely important purpose. As Charles Krauthammer in his great article in the Weekly Standard points out, "However rare the cases, there are circumstances in which, by any rational moral calculus, torture not only would be permissible but would be required (to acquire life-saving information). And once you've established the principle, to paraphrase George Bernard Shaw, all that's left to haggle about is the price."

<>

http://media.www.thetriangle.org/media/sto...e-1515339.shtml

Well of course it's not a good point that Bin Laden planned 9/11 on the Clinton's watch, it's what you would call an inconvenient truth.

I find it funny that certain people after all these years are still resorting to short references, it shows a complete lack of maturity.

Part of what's being ignored here is that we've a dimocratically controlled House & Senate that's enjoying far lower approval ratings prior to the 2006 elections.

I believe the Left could experience a far worse wake-up call than expected because I believe John Q Public already can see the writing on the wall and is really po's at both political parties.

Hell no Hilliary can't do the job it's the beauty of her winning the dimocrat nominatin because I'm willing to wager that the 8 years of Bill will sink her further than any submarine or ship in this or any other life time.

IS demonstrates "the left's" willingness to sacrifice the future of our great republic to a verified threat that will attempt to make what happened w/the Russian school children be a walk in the park. How do we know the threat is real to our schools and their occupants? It's been revealed in numerous information from raids and gathering of information in raids from the U.S to Iraq. Yet this isn't good enough for those on the left so like there a**ess their heads are firmly planted in the ground.

The "little man" is the one hiding behind a fake name carrying the message of George Soros while spewing garbage from the left. Let there be no mistake that would be IS.

I'll further question much more about him in that he obviously is willing to rewrite the rules of war in regards to detainees & their treatment. To be covered under the Geneva Convention you need have on a uniform from a valid country. These rules from The Universal Declaration of Human Rights aren't followed by those who detonate homicide bombs killing innocent civilians and there is no out cry from "The Left" when this happens which shows the overall agenda of "The Left".

You do what it takes to save lives and win not aiding & abetting those having show a willingness to use any means to take over our country.

You seem to want to argue in absolutes where, obviously, each situation must be evaluated independently. As a general principle, redistribution of wealth is bad for society, however, we pragmatically realize that there will always be *some* redistribution of wealth. So it is with interrogation, crime etc..

I don't want to argue in absolutes at all -- interrogations are fine -- a skilled interrogator not using torture is better than an unskilled interrogator using torture.

Terrorism is going to continue -- the Middle-East is unstable -- mix in Islamic fanatics and Christian fanatics and you have a volatile mixture.

But, I predict that when Hillary Clinton is President all this debate about torture will end. It was the same with Bill Clinton as President, all complaints about the homeless were suspended.

You might be right -- but she better close Guantanimo and the various secret sites the CIA uses to torture prisoners and stop the rendition of prisoners to countries that use torture.

IS- I would use torture, and or what ever it took to save people from being massacred, by sickos who don't care a flying fornication about US, and or international law.

Do you care about international law -- only when its convenient?  Only when it suits you?
I don't see much difference between you and the terrorists then.

here are several hypothetical situations in which the use of torture would not only be acceptable, but morally required. First is the widely known "ticking time bomb" scenario.

The standard response of the Left is to stick their heads in the sand and claim that the above situation is purely hypothetical and unlikely to occur in real life.

It would be nice if torture worked -- if it were an effective means of preventing a terrorist event.

Unfortunately, if you let the government have the authority to torture it will abuse that power. Innocent people will be abused.

Sure, in a story book world -- the good guy correctly identifies the bad guy and makes him talk. In the real world the government authorities abuse their powers and innocent people suffer.

The discussion of torture brings out the differences between conservatives and liberals.
Wire up people with brain wave monitors -- show them videos of the WTC attacks -- the fear portions of the conservative's brain lights up -- the liberals remain calm.

Ask conservatives to administer electric shocks to people who aren't responding properly and they willingly do it -- Liberals refuse.

Command a conservative to administer discipline to a totally innocent person and he obeys.

There's nothing more dangerous than a compliant populace that's afraid.

You're afraid of an attack on your kid's school. Try as I might --sorry, but I'm just not afraid.








 

These are excellent questions. First, everyone can think of unlikely situations that can challenge our abilities to find solutions that everyone will agree with.

Beslan school hostage crisis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis




 

[step it up a notch]

Do you care about international law -- only when its convenient? Only when it suits you? I don't see much difference between you and the terrorists then.

Nice IS - First it's I'm a propagandist for not swallowing the green Kool-Aid, then a Blind Fool, and now not much difference between me and the terrorists.

I, IS, live in the culture of life, and I'm also a proud member of the "John Q Public".  You on the other hand, seem to live in the culture of death.  If you’re in a situation - where you have to "step it up a notch" to save people from being massacred because the acceptable "interrogations" methods aren’t working, then so be it then.

Hey IS - How's the view from the ivory tower.  Do you ever get to live in the real world.

The remarks about international law really get me.

IS forgets about our founding father's warning in regards to becoming entangled in agreements w/foreign govts or countries. There was a time when our great republic's representatives reminded those trying to bring us to our knees where those agreements could be put.

Now as with the case of Pelosi being concerned about massacres that happened in WWI in an effort to kill our troops off is another prime example of the left's eagerness for us to be on our knees and at the mercy of other countries.

Westcoast I really wouldn't give too much creedance to what IS has to say, you more than likely can find him & Dr. Otto Marxist at the statehouse on Oct. kissing some moslem butt w/the rest of their friends.

You on the other hand, seem to live in the culture of death. If you’re in a situation - where you have to "step it up a notch" to save people from being massacred because the acceptable "interrogations" methods aren’t working, then so be it then.

So you think you can save people by doing an interrogation?  I would think that if TERRORISTS have control of a school you would react to that situation and not focus attention on someone that might have a magic key. While you're spending hours or days interogating some suspect are you going to hope the TERRORISTS wait patiently for you.

I live in a culture of death?  What the F does that mean?

IS forgets about our founding father's warning in regards to becoming entangled in agreements w/foreign govts or countries.

I remember full well Washington's warnings given in his farewell address.  We live in a different world today -- the world is metaphorically much smaller -- our dealing with foreign nations are much more extensive today than anything Washington could have imagined.
 

[Culture of death qualifiers:]

I live in a culture of death? What the F does that mean?

IS - It's the great lib way of life. aka, the culture of death.  You see if you lived in the real world, and took your head out of your butt you would have known.  By the way you made a spelling mistake. lol, it's "interrogating" not "interogating"

Culture of death qualifiers:

* Belief that human life in the womb can be extinguished on the basis of a woman’s right to choose convenience over giving birth.

* Belief that human dignity includes the right to commit suicide, and to allow other’s to make a suicide decision for you, when you cannot object to their determination that no one would like to live in your condition.
 
IS, do you ascribe to these virtues?  If so, you are a card-carrying member of the culture of death.

* Belief that human life in the womb can be extinguished on the basis of a woman’s right to choose convenience over giving birth.

* Belief that human dignity includes the right to commit suicide, and to allow other’s to make a suicide decision for you, when you cannot object to their determination that no one would like to live in your condition.

IS, do you ascribe to these virtues? If so, you are a card-carrying member of the culture of death.

For any x, if x is not morally wrong then x is a virtue?
Do you serously want to argue this?

I don't think that abortion is morally wrong. Nor do I believe that it is a virtue.
Some suicides are not morally wrong. If Hitler had commited suicide in 1945, it would not have been morally wrong. Nor would have been a virtuous act.

I eat beef, pork, and chicken-- is that sufficient to be included in the Culture of Death?
I pluck tomatoes off the vine -- bingo Culture of Death.
I step on ants and spiders -- Bingo, Culture of Death.
I crush mosquitoes -- Culture of Death.
I've even used insecticides...  Horrors.

What does any of this have to do with torture?

I can stipulate definitions as well as you -- Do you believe in violating basic moral principles --

--do you believe that women should be forced to continue their pregnancies?
--do you believe that you have the right to torture people?

If so then you belong to the Culture of Evil and The Culture of Immorality.



 

It's nothing to do with torture - I just enjoy jerking your chain, and also the views of the left just make me want to puke.

So you think you can save people by doing an interrogation? I would think that if TERRORISTS have control of a school you would react to that situation and not focus attention on someone that might have a magic key. While you're spending hours or days interogating some suspect are you going to hope the TERRORISTS wait patiently for you.

I thought you were going to evacuate the school?

 

thought you were going to evacuate the school?

I won't be evacuating any schools. I don't have that authority.

It's nothing to do with torture - I just enjoy jerking your chain, and also the views of the left just make me want to puke.

I suggest you avoid politics then.  Other wise see a psychiatrist about your problem.

I'm not here to try to get into politics numb nutz - I'm here to spread the word of the so called "vast right wing conspiracy" lol.  However, my main mission is to try and convert you from being left of Lennon - according to “The Goracle”, I have 8 years and 104 days to do this.  I’m keeping my fingers crossed that you will join the right side. :-)

AdamSmith asked you the below question:

OK IS, you have a suspect terrorist, he has info on the bombs hidden in your child's elementary school being held by fellow terrorists. If you don't get the key to a safe, your child dies. What do you do?

Your answer was:

Evacuate the school.

I then asked you:

thought you were going to evacuate the school?

Your answer was:
 

I won't be evacuating any schools. I don't have that authority.

Gotcha......

I suggest you avoid politics then. Other wise see a psychiatrist about your problem.

I didn't realize you were a doctor. I believe this would fall under practicing w/out a license. On the remote chance you were board certified you still can't make that call w/out a complete examination.

My suggestion (did you catch the suggestion part?) for you is to keep better track of you lies so you don't look like a freakin putz.

 

I didn't realize you were a doctor.

Ok Ok Ok  You got me ---  I have no authority to tell someone that if they say they get sick when listening to liberals they should see a doctor.


   
AdamSmith asked you the below question:

OK IS, you have a suspect terrorist, he has info on the bombs hidden in your child's elementary school being held by fellow terrorists. If you don't get the key to a safe, your child dies. What do you do?

Your answer was:

Evacuate the school. 

I then asked you:

thought you were going to evacuate the school?


Your answer was:

I won't be evacuating any schools. I don't have that authority.

OK, I should have said originally --THOSE IN CHARGE SHOULD EVACUATE THE SCHOOL.  IF I were in charge I would evacuate the school.


Hypotheticals require answering what one WOULD DO IF something were the case.

IF I HAD the authority I would evacuate the school IF THAT would save lives.

IN ACTUALITY, I DON'T have such authority --- EXCUSE me for confusing YOU about the difference between hypothetical reality and the actual world.