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Topic: Health Care Reform  (Read 12534 times)
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« on: July 21, 2008, 08:43:13 PM »
Ideological Sceptic Offline
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YouTube Video

Insurance Company Rules

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/bVpX5fUvPlg&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/bVpX5fUvPlg&rel=0</a>
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Critically and Intelligently Engage All Ideas

Ignoring ideas is Never an Option

« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2008, 10:07:13 PM »
Pugergee Offline
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Propaganda Artist...going,going....GONE !!

 PGC
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"Just because YOU do not take an interest in politics......doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in YOU" - PERICLES ( 430 B.C.)

"No man's LIFE,LIBERTY,or PROPERTY is safe while the legislature is in session" - Mark Twain (1866)

"I've seen it rainin' fire in the sky.....and...
I know I'd be a poorer man if I never saw an eagle fly" -
     John Denver (1972)

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits"
    Albert Einstein

[
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2009, 02:40:19 PM »
Vocal Observer Offline
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<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/oXtS2RMBukQ&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/oXtS2RMBukQ&rel=0</a>
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The Principle of Subsidiarity
Repeal the 17th Amendment

"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." - Th. Jefferson

Oh yea... Run Paul Run!
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2009, 01:17:44 PM »
Vocal Observer Offline
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If Senators can't read this legislation, how can they write it?  Better yet, WHO is writing the legislation?

Quote
Finance Committee Democrat Won’t Read Text of Health Bill, Says Anyone Who Claims They’ll Understand It ‘Is Trying to Pull the Wool Over Our Eyes’
Friday, October 02, 2009
By Nicholas Ballasy, Video Reporter

(CNSNews.com) - Sen. Thomas Carper (D.-Del.), a member of the Senate Finance Committee, told CNSNews.com that he does not “expect” to read the actual legislative language of the committee’s health care bill because it is “confusing” and that anyone who claims they are going to read it and understand it is fooling people.

“I don’t expect to actually read the legislative language because reading the legislative language is among the more confusing things I’ve ever read in my life,” Carper told CNSNews.com.

Carper described the type of language the actual text of the bill would finally be drafted in as "arcane," "confusing," "hard stuff to understand," and "incomprehensible."   He likened it to the "gibberish" used in credit card disclosure forms.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/54930
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The Principle of Subsidiarity
Repeal the 17th Amendment

"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." - Th. Jefferson

Oh yea... Run Paul Run!
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2009, 08:25:05 PM »
theshadow Offline
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"If Senators can't read this legislation, how can they write it?  Better yet, WHO is writing the legislation?"

Simple...  The insurance companies' lobbyists.


The Shadows smiles Smiley
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2009, 09:58:48 PM »
Ideological Sceptic Offline
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I've read HR3200 -- the big health care bill.

It isn't very long -- none of the bills are very long -- lots of pages but double spaced and lots of blank space so not actually very many words.

Most of it is actually very simple if it were written in basic prose--

But the text isn't written in prose. Any bill will have to fit with the body of law already existing. So, you get this sort of mumbo jumbo -- it looks complicated but really isn't.


SEC. 1645. CONFORMING CIVIL MONETARY PENALTIES TO FALSE CLAIMS ACT AMENDMENTS.

      Section 1128A of the Social Security Act, as amended by sections 1611, 1612, 1613, and 1615, is further amended-
            (1) in subsection (a)-

                  (A) in paragraph (1), by striking ‘to an officer, employee, or agent of the United States, or of any department or agency thereof, or of any State agency (as defined in subsection (i)(1))’;

                  (B) in paragraph (4)--

                        (i) by striking ‘participating in a program under title XVIII or a State health care program’ and inserting ‘participating in a Federal health care program (as defined in section 1128B(f))’;

                        (ii) in subparagraph (A), by striking ‘title XVIII or a State health care program’ and inserting ‘a Federal health care program (as defined in section 1128B(f))’

                  (C) by striking ‘or’ at the end of paragraph (10);
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Critically and Intelligently Engage All Ideas

Ignoring ideas is Never an Option

« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2009, 02:49:44 PM »
Vocal Observer Offline
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Democracy in America: S.1796 - Health Care Reform Bill - 1,502 Pages; Lobbyists wrote it, no one read it.

Finance Committee bill has been filed

http://www.politico.com/livepulse/1009/Finance_Committee_bill_has_been_filed_.html
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The Principle of Subsidiarity
Repeal the 17th Amendment

"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." - Th. Jefferson

Oh yea... Run Paul Run!
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2009, 08:53:31 AM »
Vocal Observer Offline
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The Principle of Subsidiarity
Repeal the 17th Amendment

"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." - Th. Jefferson

Oh yea... Run Paul Run!
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2009, 12:38:47 AM »
Vocal Observer Offline
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I guess the Kennedy's can no longer get away with "murder"

Quote
Congressman Kennedy Owes Catholic Church 'Apology' for 'Irresponsible' Remarks on Health Care, Says Bishop Tobin
Friday, October 23, 2009
By Michael W. Chapman, Managing Editor

Rev. Thomas J. Tobin, Bishop of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Providence, R.I.
(CNSNews.com) – Representative Patrick Kennedy (D-R.I.) “is irresponsible and ignorant of the facts” about the Catholic Church’s views on health care reform and “continues to be a disappointment to the Catholic Church and to the citizens of the State of Rhode Island,” said Rev. Thomas J. Tobin, bishop of the diocese of Providence, in a statement released Friday in response to an interview CNSNews.com conducted with Kennedy.
 
In the interview on Wednesday, Oct. 21, Kennedy said the Catholic Church was only fanning “the flames of dissent and discord” by taking the position that it will oppose the health care reform bill under consideration in Congress unless it is amended to explicitly prohibit funding of abortion.
 
“If the church is pro-life, then they ought to be for health care reform because it’s going to provide health care that are going to keep people alive,” Kennedy told CNSNews.com.
 
In his Friday statement, Bp. Tobin said:  “Congressman Patrick Kennedy’s statement about the Catholic Church’s position on health care reform is irresponsible and ignorant of the facts. But the Congressman is correct in stating that 'he can’t understand.' He got that part right.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/56028
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The Principle of Subsidiarity
Repeal the 17th Amendment

"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." - Th. Jefferson

Oh yea... Run Paul Run!
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2009, 12:44:59 AM »
Vocal Observer Offline
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Woo Hoo, no more paying taxes!

Quote
Boehner: ‘I’m Not a Constitutional Lawyer, But I Think It's Wrong to Mandate the American People to Have to Do Anything'

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/55969
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The Principle of Subsidiarity
Repeal the 17th Amendment

"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." - Th. Jefferson

Oh yea... Run Paul Run!
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2009, 04:24:53 PM »
Vocal Observer Offline
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It depends on what your definition of is is...

Obama Told House Democrat He Wasn’t Talking about House Health Bill When He Told Congress ‘Our Plan’ Doesn’t Fund Abortion

Quote
Monday, October 26, 2009
By Terence P. Jeffrey, Editor-in-Chief

(CNSNews.com) - Rep. Bart Stupak (D.-Mich.) told CNSNews.com that President Barack Obama told him in a telephone conversation that when he said in his Sept. 9 speech to a joint session of Congress that “under our plan no federal dollars will be used to fund abortions” he was not talking about the actual bill drafted in the House but about the president’s own health care plan—which has never been written.

“I don’t know if it is a game of semantics or what,” Stupak said of Obama’s nationally televised declaration to Congress that the health-care plan will not allow federal funding of abortion.

Both the House and Senate versions of the health-care bill permit federal funds to pay for insurance plans that cover abortions.


http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/56109
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The Principle of Subsidiarity
Repeal the 17th Amendment

"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." - Th. Jefferson

Oh yea... Run Paul Run!
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2009, 02:13:34 PM »
Vocal Observer Offline
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Nineteen States Move to Defend Individual Health Care Choice
Quote
Tuesday, October 27, 2009
By Susan Jones, Senior Editor

(CNSNews.com) – Regardless of what the U.S. Congress decides about health care reform, a growing number of states are standing up for individuals’ freedom of choice when it comes to purchasing – or not purchasing – health insurance.
 
Several Kansas Republicans have introduced a state constitutional amendment that would protect the right of Kansas residents to make their own health care choices. That makes Kansas the 19th state where legislators have introduced, or will introduce, such legislation.
 
The proposed Kansas amendment preserves the right of individuals to pay directly for medical care -- something that is not allowed in single-payer countries such as Canada. It also prohibits any individual from being penalized for not purchasing government-defined insurance.
 
Under the amendment, any state attempt to require an individual to purchase health insurance--or forbid an individual from purchasing services outside of the government-established health care system--would be rendered unconstitutional.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/56144
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The Principle of Subsidiarity
Repeal the 17th Amendment

"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." - Th. Jefferson

Oh yea... Run Paul Run!
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2009, 01:28:16 PM »
Vocal Observer Offline
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D.C. Logic: Cut heath care costs by raising costs Huh
Taxes are a cost of doing business and are added to the price of product.

House Health Care Bill Includes New Taxes, Fees, Government Mandates
Quote
Washington (AP) - The health care overhaul bill produced by House Democrats would impose an array of new taxes, fees and government mandates on major players in the health industry, including insurers, doctors and drugs and medical devices makers.


http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/56367
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The Principle of Subsidiarity
Repeal the 17th Amendment

"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." - Th. Jefferson

Oh yea... Run Paul Run!
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2009, 11:10:48 AM »
Vocal Observer Offline
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One has to wonder if this is connected to "Health Care Reform" and if this is an effort to drive down costs by denying coverage.
A government panel recommends revising the standard.  The ACA disagrees.

New Mammogram Advice Raises Concerns
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,575371,00.html
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The Principle of Subsidiarity
Repeal the 17th Amendment

"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." - Th. Jefferson

Oh yea... Run Paul Run!
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2009, 06:16:01 PM »
theshadow Offline
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From VO

"One has to wonder if this is connected to "Health Care Reform" and if this is an effort to drive down costs by denying coverage."

At some point this skepticism becomes nonsensical.  For the govt. the savings come from fewer exams under Medicare/Medicaid.  On the other hand the health insurance companies stand to gain a lot because of fewer tests. So it is as valid to say that the health insurance companies influenced the panel so as to improve profits. 

Hospitals and equipment makers would lose because there would be fewer tests to help amortize/build the equipment and the facilities to house it. on the other hand there would be fewer "charity" cases  Other losers would be the workers.  In summary, the Shadow wonders if the driving motivation was to improve insurance companies' profits.  We know that often govt panels etc. work for the private sector. 

Nonsensical, of course. Conspiracy theory...why not? On the other hand it might just be that in addition to cost (an important consideration) the exposure to radiation for little/no gain in disease detection/survival was not deemed by the panel as justified on scientific grounds.  Note that a missed case of breast cancer is much more expensive than a mammogram.  How many mammograms would pay for one missed case?   By the way, as  in N1H1 vaccination it is all a matter of probabilities

The Shadow
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