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Topic: Health Care Reform
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Topic: Health Care Reform (Read 11458 times)
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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #105 on: March 21, 2010, 12:33:06 PM »
TonyBlair
Verified Member
CTH Professor
Reputation: +54/-0
Posts: 3824
Remember Ghostbusters?
Dr. Egon Spengler: There's something very important I forgot to tell you.
Dr. Peter Venkman: What?
Dr. Egon Spengler: Don't cross the streams.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Why?
Dr. Egon Spengler: It would be bad.
Dr. Peter Venkman: I'm fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing. What do you mean, "bad"?
Dr. Egon Spengler: Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.
Dr Ray Stantz: Total protonic reversal.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Right. That's bad. Okay. All right. Important safety tip. Thanks, Egon.
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We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald Reagan
Al Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warming
The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - Camus
The person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek
Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #106 on: March 22, 2010, 01:34:51 AM »
American Woman, American Mom, American Nurse
American Woman
CTH Tutor
Reputation: +0/-0
Posts: 100
"Those who "resent" being "forced" to pay into the system should be prepared to pay the FULL tab for whatever health problems they might have and not rely on heath provider discounts.
Those seniors who resent "government health care insurance" should give up their Medicare cards."
The Shadow
"As someone who "resents being forced to pay into this system.... I'm fully capable of meeting mine and my families health care needs. .. And don't worry.... Medicare won't be around that much longer( as it was a dying entity anyways) as the new and "improved" government health care system..will just roll them into it.... with a few minor contingencies of course.
It's coming friend... hope you've got a backup plan.
In freedom and in truth.
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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #107 on: March 22, 2010, 10:16:40 AM »
Credo
Verified Member
CTH Associate Professor
Reputation: +4/-1
Posts: 1092
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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #108 on: March 22, 2010, 04:57:25 PM »
Credo
Verified Member
CTH Associate Professor
Reputation: +4/-1
Posts: 1092
Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli explains rational on Virginia Law Suit.
http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=10340477&server=vimeo.com&fullscreen=1&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=01AAEA
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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #109 on: March 22, 2010, 05:45:33 PM »
Vocal Observer
Verified Member
CTH Associate Professor
Reputation: +18/-0
Posts: 1971
That photo comparison is priceless.
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The Principle of Subsidiarity
Repeal the 17th Amendment
"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." - Th. Jefferson
Oh yea... Run Paul Run!
Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #110 on: March 22, 2010, 05:51:42 PM »
Ideological Sceptic
CTH Associate Professor
Reputation: +5/-41
Posts: 1519
As someone who "resents being forced to pay into this system.... I'm fully capable of meeting mine and my families health care needs. .. And don't worry.... Medicare won't be around that much longer( as it was a dying entity anyways) as the new and "improved" government health care system..will just roll them into it.... with a few minor contingencies of course.
It's coming friend... hope you've got a backup plan.
In freedom and in truth.
No medicare -- then you'll be happy with no medical insurance at all?
What do you think a health insurance policy would cost you without medicare -- $30k/year per person?
Great if you can afford it. What percentage of the 65+ population will be able to?
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Critically and Intelligently Engage All Ideas
Ignoring ideas is Never an Option
Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #111 on: March 22, 2010, 06:26:31 PM »
Counter
Verified Member
CTH Associate Professor
Reputation: +15/-1
Posts: 1673
A MINORITY VIEW
BY WALTER WILLIAMS
RELEASE: WEDNESDAY, MARCH 10, 2010
Is Health Care a Right?
Most politicians, and probably most Americans, see health care as a right. Thus, whether a person has the means to pay for medical services or not, he is nonetheless entitled to them. Let's ask ourselves a few questions about this vision.
Say a person, let's call him Harry, suffers from diabetes and he has no means to pay a laboratory for blood work, a doctor for treatment and a pharmacy for medication. Does Harry have a right to XYZ lab's and Dr. Jones' services and a prescription from a pharmacist? And, if those services are not provided without charge, should Harry be able to call for criminal sanctions against those persons for violating his rights to health care?
You say, "Williams, that would come very close to slavery if one person had the right to force someone to serve him without pay." You're right. Suppose instead of Harry being able to force a lab, doctor and pharmacy to provide services without pay, Congress uses its taxing power to take a couple of hundred dollars out of the paycheck of some American to give to Harry so that he could pay the lab, doctor and pharmacist. Would there be any difference in principle, namely forcibly using one person to serve the purposes of another? There would be one important strategic difference, that of concealment. Most Americans, I would hope, would be offended by the notion of directly and visibly forcing one person to serve the purposes of another. Congress' use of the tax system to invisibly accomplish the same end is more palatable to the average American.
True rights, such as those in our Constitution, or those considered to be natural or human rights, exist simultaneously among people. That means exercise of a right by one person does not diminish those held by another. In other words, my rights to speech or travel impose no obligations on another except those of non-interference. If we apply ideas behind rights to health care to my rights to speech or travel, my free speech rights would require government-imposed obligations on others to provide me with an auditorium, television studio or radio station. My right to travel freely would require government-imposed obligations on others to provide me with airfare and hotel accommodations.
For Congress to guarantee a right to health care, or any other good or service, whether a person can afford it or not, it must diminish someone else's rights, namely their rights to their earnings. The reason is that Congress has no resources of its very own. Moreover, there is no Santa Claus, Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy giving them those resources. The fact that government has no resources of its very own forces one to recognize that in order for government to give one American citizen a dollar, it must first, through intimidation, threats and coercion, confiscate that dollar from some other American. If one person has a right to something he did not earn, of necessity it requires that another person not have a right to something that he did earn.
To argue that people have a right that imposes obligations on another is an absurd concept. A better term for new-fangled rights to health care, decent housing and food is wishes. If we called them wishes, I would be in agreement with most other Americans for I, too, wish that everyone had adequate health care, decent housing and nutritious meals. However, if we called them human wishes, instead of human rights, there would be confusion and cognitive dissonance. The average American would cringe at the thought of government punishing one person because he refused to be pressed into making someone else's wish come true.
None of my argument is to argue against charity. Reaching into one's own pockets to assist his fellow man in need is praiseworthy and laudable. Reaching into someone else's pockets to do so is despicable and deserves condemnation.
Walter E. Williams is a professor of economics at George Mason University. To find out more about Walter E. Williams and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate Web page at
www.creators.com
.
COPYRIGHT 2010 CREATORS.COM
http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/wew/articles/10/IsHealthCareARight.htm
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Counter
No Coal. Know Cold.
Know coal. No cold.
Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #112 on: March 22, 2010, 07:35:21 PM »
Credo
Verified Member
CTH Associate Professor
Reputation: +4/-1
Posts: 1092
Quote
Every American should have the opportunity to purchase good quality healthcare coverage. But we will not improve our healthcare system by implementing a massive one–size fits all federal policy that dramatically increases the deficit, puts unprecedented mandates on states and individuals, and jeopardizes the good coverage most citizens already have. I am disappointed in the passage of this bill, and I thank the bipartisan majority of Virginia's congressional delegation for voting against it
Now Governor Bob steps it up. Attorney General Cuccinelli will be knocking on the Court House door at the Eastern District in Richmond tomorrow. The Executive Branch of the Commonwealth is fully engaged to stop this from being dropped on Virginia's citizens.
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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #113 on: March 22, 2010, 08:51:04 PM »
Ideological Sceptic
CTH Associate Professor
Reputation: +5/-41
Posts: 1519
Is Health Care a Right?
Most politicians, and probably most Americans, see health care as a right. Thus, whether a person has the means to pay for medical services or not, he is nonetheless entitled to them. Let's ask ourselves a few questions about this vision.
Say a person, let's call him Harry, suffers from diabetes and he has no means to pay a laboratory for blood work, a doctor for treatment and a pharmacy for medication. Does Harry have a right to XYZ lab's and Dr. Jones' services and a prescription from a pharmacist? And, if those services are not provided without charge, should Harry be able to call for criminal sanctions against those persons for violating his rights to health care?
Is freedom of the press a Right?
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Critically and Intelligently Engage All Ideas
Ignoring ideas is Never an Option
Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #114 on: March 22, 2010, 08:55:55 PM »
TonyBlair
Verified Member
CTH Professor
Reputation: +54/-0
Posts: 3824
A man of principled corruption..
A Man Of Principle...Or Something [Yuval Levin]
The horrendous reconciliation bill that House Democrats voted to tack onto the horrendous health-care bill they passed yesterday would raise taxes even higher, spend even more money, and further penalize employers. But among the reasons House Democrats offered for voting for it was that it would eliminate (or rather, to make available to everyone) the “Cornhusker Kickback”—the special benefit given to Nebraska in the Senate bill, allowing that state to have its new Medicaid costs paid for entirely by the federal government (i.e, you and me.) That kickback was of course offered as an enticement to win the vote of Senator Ben Nelson, and to help him forget about his pro-life principles. Well lo and behold, Nelson has now announced that he opposes the reconciliation bill and will vote against it. Apparently it taxes and spends too much.
It really renews your faith in politicians, doesn't it?
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ODFmMTUxNjlhYTc0NmIwM2Y0ZTgyZDZjYzBmZGFkNjE=
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We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald Reagan
Al Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warming
The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - Camus
The person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek
Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #115 on: March 22, 2010, 09:03:15 PM »
Ideological Sceptic
CTH Associate Professor
Reputation: +5/-41
Posts: 1519
Is Health Care a Right? -- Is Freedom of the Press a Right?
Quote:
Most politicians, and probably most Americans, see health care as a right. Thus, whether a person has the means to pay for medical services or not, he is nonetheless entitled to them. Let's ask ourselves a few questions about this vision.
Say a person, let's call him Harry, suffers from diabetes and he has no means to pay a laboratory for blood work, a doctor for treatment and a pharmacy for medication. Does Harry have a right to XYZ lab's and Dr. Jones' services and a prescription from a pharmacist? And, if those services are not provided without charge, should Harry be able to call for criminal sanctions against those persons for violating his rights to health care?
----------------
Is freedom of the press a Right?
Most politicians, and probably most Americans, see freedom of the press as a right. Thus, whether a person has the means to pay for a newspaper press or not, he is nonetheless entitled to one. Let's ask ourselves a few questions about this vision.
Say a person, let's call him Harry, wants to spread his views in a newspaper but he has no means to pay for a printing press, ink or paper. Does Harry have a right to XYZ's printing press and a's ink and b's paper? And if those items are not provided without charge, should Harry be able to call for criminal sanctions against those persons for violating his right to freedom of the press?
Quote:
True rights, such as those in our Constitution, or those considered to be natural or human rights, exist simultaneously among people. That means exercise of a right by one person does not diminish those held by another.
----------
Whenever anyone starts a sentence with "true x" or "true xs" get ready for some real BS.
OK, exercise of a true right does not diminish the rights of another person.
OK -- Jones and I compete for Mary's love and her hand in marriage.
Jones loses. I win. Mary marries me. I have various rights with repect the Mary that Jones does not have.
In fact Jones had one time had these rights -- he was married to Mary. But she preferred me, divorced him and married me.
HE lost all rights to Mary's love, affection, etc. I now have those right.
Ah, but according to this Walter Williams -- it isn't a true right then. What a load of BS. And you post it here.
GEEZ
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Critically and Intelligently Engage All Ideas
Ignoring ideas is Never an Option
Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #116 on: March 22, 2010, 09:17:22 PM »
TonyBlair
Verified Member
CTH Professor
Reputation: +54/-0
Posts: 3824
We all know where this is going..
Grassley says health care reform should apply to President Obama, top administration officials
WASHINGTON – Senator Chuck Grassley today said he will offer an amendment during Senate debate on the health care reconciliation bill this week to apply the reform legislation to the President, Vice President, cabinet members and top White House staff.
“It’s pretty unbelieveable that the President and his closest advisors remain untouched by the reforms they pushed for the rest of the country. In other words, President Obama’s health care reform won’t apply to President Obama,” Grassley said. “Last December, the effort to apply any new law to administration political leaders was rejected by the Senate Majority Leader. But there’s no justification for the double standard, and I’ll continue to work to establish fairness.”
http://grassley.senate.gov/news/Article.cfm?customel_dataPageID_1502=25889
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We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald Reagan
Al Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warming
The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - Camus
The person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek
Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #117 on: March 22, 2010, 09:55:02 PM »
Ideological Sceptic
CTH Associate Professor
Reputation: +5/-41
Posts: 1519
This guy Williams is a super-nova sized idiot.
He claims "To argue that people have a right that imposes obligations on another is an absurd concept. "
This is an odd sentence construction reflecting an unfamiliarity with the language of rights. He doesn't have a clue.
I doubt that he has any idea what "an absurd concept" is.
I'll give you definition of 'an absurd concept'. First, some examples: a square circle, an honest liar, a tall short person, a married bachelor.
Ok you get the idea. An absurd concept entails a contradiction.
This is a syntactical concept of 'an absurd concept'. Now there is also a semantic form: a yellow abstract concept, a mad number, a yellow square root. -- you get the idea-- these are meaningless concepts.
This guy Williams claims that rights do not impose obligations on others.
Suppose I have a right to freedom of the press -- this right clearly imposes obligations on others. It means that you have an obligation to refrain from using the law to prevent me from publishing my views.
Unless, as a writer and publisher, I libel you, and if I can establish that what I say about you as a public person, is probably true then you have an obligation to put up with my published criticism of your views and your actions. You have no business interfering with my rights to publish my stories about you.
In other words, when I claim that Williams has said nothing true about the nature of rights -- I can establish that my views are well-founded and probably true. He has an obligation to let me publish my views and not interfere with my freedom to express that view.
Whatever happened to all those intelligent conservatives we used to have.
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Critically and Intelligently Engage All Ideas
Ignoring ideas is Never an Option
Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #118 on: March 22, 2010, 10:17:11 PM »
TonyBlair
Verified Member
CTH Professor
Reputation: +54/-0
Posts: 3824
Logged
We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald Reagan
Al Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warming
The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - Camus
The person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek
Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #119 on: March 23, 2010, 02:15:23 PM »
Credo
Verified Member
CTH Associate Professor
Reputation: +4/-1
Posts: 1092
VA OAG Complaint against Kathleen Sebelius - HHS Secretary.
Some high points.
There is no severability clause in the statute. If one part gets chucked - the whole thing goes.
Virginia has a statute protecting its citizens against individual mandates. Since the Federal statute is unconstitutional, there is no supremacy clause issue here.
The Commerce Clause does not apply. Since there is no commerce if someone refuses to buy Health Insurance.
It appears to me that the complaint leaves the Judge wiggle room to issue a stay on enforcement and execution of this act pending resolution.
This was filed in the Eastern District Court of Richmond. 13 States Attorneys General have filed likewise in the Northern District of Florida in Pensacola led by Florida AG Bill McCollum.
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