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Topic: 17th Amd = No Representation  (Read 750 times)
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« on: June 01, 2009, 12:59:35 PM »
Vocal Observer Offline
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This was "progressive" and was supposed to solve corruption problems.  Congress really fixed that problem.

Judge Napolitano: Repeal the 17th Amendment For Better Local Representation

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/OFUctrLsuFM&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/OFUctrLsuFM&rel=0</a>
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The Principle of Subsidiarity
Repeal the 17th Amendment

"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." - Th. Jefferson

Oh yea... Run Paul Run!
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2009, 01:23:32 PM »
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Politics over Principle Huh

What is missed is that this further damages CT's representation at the national level.  Chris Dodd (CONNECTICUT Senator) has raised $300 in his reelection bid inside CT, $500,000 from outside the state.  Who does he represent?

Senators represent the state.  Reps represent the people.  As it stands, we have have 535 U.S. Representatives, 100 are more powerful than the other 435.

Quote
Senate Votes To Remove Rell's Power To Appoint A U.S. Senator

By JON LENDER and CHRISTOPHER KEATING | The Hartford Courant
    3:42 PM EDT, May 29, 2009

In the wee hours of Friday morning, state Senate Democrats voted to remove Republican Gov. M. Jodi Rell's power to appoint a U.S. Senator in case of a vacancy, and to fill future Senate vacancies via special elections – but by afternoon Rell was ripping the bill as "blatant, partisan politics."

Gubernatorial press secretary Chris Cooper would not say whether Rell would veto the bill if it passes in the Democrat-controlled House, where it goes next for action, but he said: "We are now five months into the legislative session and the Democratic leaders have not yet voted on a budget -- which should be the sole focus of this legislative budget session."

http://www.courant.com/news/politics/hc-connecticut-senate-chris-dodd-joe-lieberman-rel,0,452044.story
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The Principle of Subsidiarity
Repeal the 17th Amendment

"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." - Th. Jefferson

Oh yea... Run Paul Run!
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2010, 12:55:32 PM »
Vocal Observer Offline
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Washington State Legislation to Repeal the 17th
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Sen. Val Stevens is pushing legislation this session that would amend the Constitution of the United States, doing away with the 17th Amendment, which guarantees the election of our U.S. senators by a vote of the people.
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The Principle of Subsidiarity
Repeal the 17th Amendment

"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." - Th. Jefferson

Oh yea... Run Paul Run!
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2010, 01:41:13 PM »
Credo Offline
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Speaker Howell open to any action that will cause Congress to listen




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...But Howell sees a convention as perhaps the only way to revitalize the 10th amendment and repeal the 17th amendment (the direct election of Senators). He would like to see states have more parity with the federal government....


Bill Howell is speaker of the Virginia House of Delegates.
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« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2010, 03:50:04 PM »
theshadow Offline
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VO

"As it stands, we have have 535 U.S. Representatives, 100 are more powerful than the other 435."   Not complete.  41 are more powerful than the other 494.

"Senators represent the state."  So why was Nelson maligned when he got something for his state?

The Shadow



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« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2010, 04:49:35 PM »
Vocal Observer Offline
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"Senators represent the state."  So why was Nelson maligned when he got something for his state?

Post 17th Amendment, Senators do not represent the state, but the people of the state and are now corrupted more than most by politics.

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"French political and social observer Alexis de Tocqueville visited the Senate in session. Later, he described the 1832 Senate as 'composed of eloquent advocates, distinguished generals, wise magistrates, and statesmen of note, whose arguments would do honor to the most remarkable parliamentary debates of Europe.'"

Times have definitely changed. Shocked
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The Principle of Subsidiarity
Repeal the 17th Amendment

"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." - Th. Jefferson

Oh yea... Run Paul Run!
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2010, 10:21:41 PM »
theshadow Offline
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"Senators do not represent the state, but the people of the state"

  The corollary here is that the State is not the people or that by representing the people of a state the senator is not representing the State.  It presuposes that the wisdom of the legislature is greater than the wisdom of the people.

 Considering the Ohio Legislature over the years and the gerrymandering of districts, that is a bad joke.  The 17th amendment should stand.  Power to the people where all are equal (Senators are elected at large)

'composed of eloquent advocates, distinguished generals, wise magistrates, and statesmen of note, whose arguments would do honor to the most remarkable parliamentary debates of Europe."

 With the anti-intellectualism that is rampant the people would regard such eloquence as "out of touch".

Not to be cynical but the old axiom that says that  "the people do not get the government they want but rather the government they deserve" was true in the past, more so in the last  eight years and if things keep going the way they are going now it will be true for the foreseeable future.  The infighting, the one upsmanship, the lack of civility, the lack of humility, the lack of civil morality and cohesiveness will place this country at greater risk than it faces now.

 "My way or the highway" is not conducive to civil tranquility. 

"Times have definitely changed"

But for the best.  Women have the vote, slavery has been abolished etc. etc. 

The Constitution contemplates methods for its amendment because the founding fathers must have recognized that life of people and nations are not static.  The people can (and will from time to time) through their elected representatives change the constitution.  Such amendments be they to the US or State constitutions should be carefully considered and not used for the establishment of casinos  Grin

The Shadow
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« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2010, 10:26:31 PM »
Credo Offline
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Repeal the 17th Amendment by Tony Blankley

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But just as the Tea Party movement in so many ways seems to represent the 2.0 version of our movement, so I again thought about the 10th amendment anew. After about 10 seconds' thought, it struck me that the best way to revive the 10th Amendment is to repeal the 17th Amendment -- which changes the first paragraph of Article I, Section 3 of the Constitution to provide that each state's senators are to be "elected by the people thereof" rather than being "chosen by the Legislature thereof."


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