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Topic: Urgent! Sherrod Brown townhall meeting this morning Wednesday 8/12  (Read 3254 times)
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« on: August 12, 2009, 01:23:32 AM »
American Woman, American Mom, American Nurse
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See info below. This from the 9/12 Ohio group. Carolines post in the forum

Dan M... care to come with your camera?

OUTRAGEOUS! BACKROOM TRICKERY!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sen. Sherrod Brown's office told me to watch their email to find out when he would be having a townhall meeting. They didn't put it on his website, but I got an email today that is a copy of the invitation (with and Obama logo) to all their supporters, rallying them to show up for his townhall meeting tomorrow! They apparently hoped the ALL his constituents wouldn't get this info, only he supporters. Here is the content of the invitation he sent out...read it ALL:

Friend --
I wanted to send you an urgent invitation to an important forum with Sen. Sherrod Brown this Wednesday, August 12th. He'll be talking to constituents and gathering feedback -- this is an ideal opportunity to make sure your support for health insurance reform is seen and heard at exactly the right time.

Our congressional representatives are back home this month, and they're facing more and more pressure from special interests on health insurance reform. It's critical that we get out there and show them where we stand.

I hope you can join us.

What: Health Reform Forum with
Sen. Sherrod Brown

Where: OSU Biomedical Research Tower
460 West 12th Avenue
Columbus , OH 43210

When: Wednesday, August 12th
Arrival Time: 9:00 a.m.
Start Time: 10:15 a.m.

[RSVP - CLICK HERE]

Our representatives are under attack by Washington insiders, insurance companies, and well-financed special interests who don't go a day without spreading lies and stirring up fear. We need to show that we're sick and tired of it, and that we're ready for real change, this year.

Please come to the forum, and make sure that the most powerful voices in this debate are those calling for real reform, not angrily clamoring for the status quo.

RSVP here:

http://oh.barackobama.com/ColumbusTH

Thanks,

Greg

Greg Schultz
Ohio State Director
Organizing for America

P.S. -- Before the event, please print off a flyer to display and make sure that your support is visible. 
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« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2009, 06:09:39 AM »
American Woman, American Mom, American Nurse
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I will be dragging my tired worn out A** to this event... having worked all night. Who's coming along? I'll try to save you a seat up front.
Ang
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« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2009, 11:22:12 AM »
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Sooo. I attended. Stood in line and did some observations. My first impression was that this was definetly a "pro healthcare reform" event apparently "Health Care for reform Now" got the message but nobody else did.  As this was made known to the public at the last minute... more on that later..... there was very little opposing views present.

While I stood in line,  individuals were passing out there professionally made "health care reform now!" signs to anyone holding out their hand asking for it... I wished I would have thought ahead and brought my big fat Sharpie to put the "NOT" symbol around it ...but I was exhausted.

As I stood in line the libs,  yammered back and forth about their health care woes and how the Obama plan would be so great for all their ills. They passed around "petitions" which I politely declined to sign, and gave interviews to local media.

Now mind you I had on my White lab coat and work badges. I had one individual ask me what I did. I told them that I was a registered nurse, 20 years in the trenches of healthcare.

Being amongst the dominant crowd gave this person the automatic assumption that I was one of them. And he proceeded to bad mouth the opposition and the good Americans that had the same right as he to be there to express an opinion. When he complained about how the "mob" groups were ruining townhalls across America I reminded him that all people had a right to voice their opinion....  and that the "otherside" has been notorious for doing the exact  same tactics... even worse and what he was hearing in the public was a case of Psychological Projection...whereby one  blames another for behaviors that the one is actually doing or has done in the past .  Well it didn't take too long for him to figure out that I was obviously not buying the "healthcare reform now" mantra.

And we engaged in some even handed disputes. I let him know that as a nurse I have had the unique opportunity to work with nurses from both Canada and England (I have a dear friend that is a hospice nurse in Manchester England) and reiterated that those in the "government controlled health care system do not recommend it as it does ration, cost controls and can NOT meet all the needs of all the people.

We worked our way to the front (after standing in line for a little over and hour) and were one of the last few to get in.... meaning we ended up in a different room with a viewing screen... so no personal face time with Senator Brown would be happening over their.

The "panel" comprised of an OSU MD... a Nationwide Children's MD a private sector business owner who couldn't afford to pay for insurance for his employees anymore...save for the employees who were his family and one other... a new graduate student who had the experience of being without health care insurance ...my understanding by choice,... and developed a serious illness.... and another gentleman business owner unable to meet the health insurance for his employees as well.

Each forum panel member raised very good concerns and questions in regard to how the Dims plan would be better for them ... each wanted access for all.... better cost control and the NCH MD pointed out better reimbursement from the government... as right now Medicaid pays up to 30% less than most health insurances do.... (I really thought she made an excellent point about how the government subsidy health care pays less for care than private insurance companies...generally "stiffing" the Healthcare provider.

So it went on for 2 hours. Some very good patriots who did get there were able to ask some very good questions. Occasional heckling from both sides but the overall a civil meeting...

As fortunes would have it while I stood in line...I noticed  a gentleman in line just behind me who ...like me wasn't saying much about the "pro-health care" agenda that people were talking about.... as the line moved forward and just by looking at his body language I could tell he was also one of the minority who showed up for this last minute forum. We had a great conversation with each other and challenged others /held others in line accountable for their rhetoric. Turns out the guy lives in my community down in Hide-A-way Hills. We were, for all purposes, neighbors who  found each other in a storm of opposition... AHHHHH God is good  Smiley

After the meeting I phoned Senator Brown's office in Cleveland and asked why this wasn't posted on his web page....or announced via email. The staffer told me that it was a private event organized by Ohio state University and that at the last minute they decided to open it up to the public....yeah right...I said'....how convenient.! I asked if Senator Brown had any other "town hall"s planned and she said she didn't know of any currently but that she was sure they were in the works. I told here that I thought it being nearly mid August that surely he would have a calendar of his events planned out and that it was good pr to have communications with his constituents and keep them in the loop of his where abouts and events happening. I commented that I thought he and his staffers were either not very well organized or purposely deceptive .... and asked her which one she thought it was.... well anyway... I looked on his website today ... and remember she (the staffer) told me this was a forum organized by OSU... then I found this in his website.... Which sort of negates everything she told me....



.Press Releases » Press Release Sen. Brown Holds Forum in Columbus Entitled "Health Insurance Reform - What's in It for You?"


As U.S. Senate Continues to Craft Health Insurance Reform Bill, Brown Hears from Ohioans Struggling With High Health Costs, Access to Care
August 12, 2009



COLUMBUS, OHIO – U.S. Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-OH) held a forum today at The Ohio State University entitled “Health Insurance Reform – What’s In It for You?”

 “Health insurance reform means that all Americans will pay less for health care and be protected against insurance industry practices that limit care or pass along huge out-of-pocket costs to consumers,” Brown said. “The status quo might be working for HMOs, but it’s not working for American families and businesses. That’s why I’m working to pass health insurance reform that puts hardworking Ohioans first, not big insurance companies.”

Brown received testimony from Ohioans struggling with rising health costs and access to medical care. Providing testimony were two small business owners who have seen premiums and deductibles associated with providing insurance to employees skyrocket in recent years; an Ohioan struggling to obtain health insurance due to a pre-existing medical condition; and a recent college graduate who struggled to afford health costs and find a job that provides health insurance.

In Ohio, average family health insurance premiums have increased by 92 percent since 2000 while wages have decreased. Ohio families and businesses pay a “hidden tax” of around $1,000 per year – meaning that insurers raise their premiums by an average of $1,000 to subsidize the costs of the uninsured. Nearly 400 Ohioans lose their health insurance each day. Eleven percent of Ohioans are uninsured – 64 percent of them are in families with at least one full-time worker.

High health costs are also undermining the competitiveness of Ohio businesses. While small businesses make up 72 percent of Ohio businesses, only 47 percent of them offered health coverage benefits in 2006, a decrease of 5 percent since 2000. Businesses also pay high costs to cover their employees, due to limited choice of health insurance in Ohio. The top two health insurance providers account for 58 percent of the health insurance market in Ohio.

Brown, a member of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP) Committee, outlined how health insurance reform will reduce private insurance premiums and out-of-pocket health care expenses, while giving all Americans more affordable private and public insurance options during periods of unemployment.

Health insurance reform includes the following protections for consumers against abusive practices by some insurance companies:

• No Discrimination for Pre-Existing Conditions: Insurers will no longer be able to refuse coverage based on medical history.
• No Exorbitant Out-of-Pocket Expenses, Deductibles or Co-Pays: Insurers will have to limit the charges they pass along to consumers each year in out-of-pocket costs.
• No Cost-Sharing for Preventive Care: Insurers must fully cover regular checkups and tests that help prevent illness.
• No Dropping of Coverage for Seriously Ill: Insurers can no longer drop policyholders or water down their insurance if they become seriously ill.
• No Gender Discrimination
• No Annual or Lifetime Caps on Coverage: Insurers will no longer be able to place yearly or lifetime caps on the medical care you receive.
• Extended Coverage for Young Adults: Young adults would be eligible to stay on their family’s plan through the age of 26.
• Guaranteed Insurance Renewal: Insurers can no longer refuse to renew a policy as long as the policyholder pays premiums in full.

The HELP Committee passed a health insurance reform bill with bipartisan input. More than 160 Republican amendments were accepted. Brown supports health insurance reform that includes the following elements:

• Guarantees choice of plan for consumers (which includes keeping current coverage) while providing consumers new, more affordable private and public insurance options;
• Reduces health care costs through market competition, stronger preventive services, better quality of care, and steps to root out fraud and abuse;
• Strengthens prevention and wellness programs for millions of Americans;
• Modernizes the health system and expands the health care workforce by investing in training for medical professionals and by better coordinating patient care;
• Improves long term care and services for elderly and disabled Americans.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As I suspected his office had more control over the event than I was lead to believe... It wasn't a Private forum....it was a public one....kept from the general public except the "Healthcare reform now" and supporting groups....

Get wise folks the deception and backroom politics is going to get alot uglier in the weeks to come.


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« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2009, 05:35:33 PM »
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Thanks -- this is a very interesting account of the meeting.

Could you tell us a couple of things you think are wrong with the HR 3200 or whatever the Health Care Reform Bill is called?

I'm sure you have lots of experience working with foreign medical workers but anecdotal knowledge is generally considered an insufficient amount of evidence on which to base any conclusions or beliefs.

The data show that the health care systems in both Canada and in England are superior and much cheaper than our own. The data also show that the majority of people of these nations are very satisfied with the care they receive, unlike this country in which 0nly about 30% of the population is satisfied with the medical care we receive.


--------------------

Isn't this fascinating --- Tories could lose Upcoming Election Due to Trashing Their Health Care System

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6030060/Senior-Tories-links-with-Republican-NHS-bashers-revealed.html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6797165.ece

Investors Business Daily Wrote a Whopper

"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn’t have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."

Doesn't every idiot know that Hawking is British?

Hawking replied, "I wouldn’t be alive today if it weren’t for the NHS. I have received a large amount of high quality treatment without which I would not have survived.”

http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/investors_business_daily_short.php

Original Story in Raw Story
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/08/15/uk-conservatives-links-to-gop/

Isn't time for Conservatves to stop telling such whoppers?






« Last Edit: August 16, 2009, 02:23:06 AM by Ideological Sceptic » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2009, 11:01:16 AM »
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Interesting...IS has pulled his post stated that people in Britain and Canada are as happy as clams to have socialized medicine.  Don't you believe it http://books.google.com/books?id=YpR-fJ6sdnwC&pg=PA450&lpg=PA450&dq=%2B%22national+health+service%22+%2B%22public+opinion%22&source=bl&ots=tFAp6hM2rE&sig=vY_aGnLU8ndUhe4OF0jGKSndKpY&hl=en&ei=rx2ISrbED42aMcejyfIO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9#v=onepage&q=%2B%22national%20health%20service%22%20%2B%22public%20opinion%22&f=false
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« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2009, 11:09:45 AM »
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And let the schooling continue.  The American health care "system" (if such it is) is among the best in the world.  Sam Preston, a world-class demographer, has recently posted an NBER working paper on this topic.  Verdict:  American life expecctancy has to do with the lifestyles/habits of Americans.  When medicine can make a difference in survival rates, American medicine does a good job.  Check it out. http://www.nber.org/papers/w15213

Don't let the Lefties (like IS) fool you with bogus statistics and snide commentary. 
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« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2009, 07:04:25 AM »
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"And let the schooling continue."  --Dain

It doesn't bother you that Americans pay more, as a percent of gdp and per capita gdp, for health care than any other nation? And we seem to get less health care for the buck than any other nation.

Source:http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2009/04/lack_of_universal_health_care.php




"Don't let the Lefties (like IS) fool you with bogus statistics and snide commentary.  "

--This isn't snide?

1) This may qualify as snide, but I doubt that your (or my) postings have an audience.

2) If I have any bogus statistics or false commentary please point it out to me.  I have no desire to believe false statistics.

3) If you believe this chart is misleading or false please correct the record.

4) There are other indicators of quality of health care other than life expectancy.













« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 07:30:31 AM by Ideological Sceptic » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2009, 06:47:33 PM »
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Hmm...IS's posts keep phasing in and out...sometimes they are there, sometimes not. 

Anyway, to answer this standard attack that too much of our GDP is taken up by medicine (about 15% version around 10% for Europe), essentially the U.S. subsidizes global medicine.  About 75% of all medical equipment, pharmaceuticals, and other innovations are produced by U.S. manufacturers...investment that is driven by a semi-free market in medicine.  Just as the Canadian health system rides our coattails on drugs (i.e., their ability to hold pharmaceutical firms to low prices is made possible only by the higher prices they can charge in the U.S.), just so this country subsidizes these other health systems.

So, IS, are you prepared to accept the unemployment and dip in economic activity that will occur once we "cheap out" like the Euros?  And (this is important), our basic health won't be improved by this, but it will erode the quality of our care, particularly for older people.  And we won't have all this extra money from health savings -- we'll just have a smaller economy, thank you very much.
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« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2009, 09:29:51 PM »
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"Just as the Canadian health system rides our coattails on drugs (i.e., their ability to hold pharmaceutical firms to low prices is made possible only by the higher prices they can charge in the U.S.), just so this country subsidizes these other health systems."

--Dain


Let me get this straight.

I've always thought of subsidies as a government payment to producers or distributors in an industry to prevent the decline of that industry.


The pharmaceutical industry makes huge profits -- they don't need any subsidies and we pay too much for prescription drugs in this country.

I can't see that we are subsidizing drug purchases of other other countries. The drug companies still make a tidy profit from those sales -- if they didn't they wouldn't sell them in those other countries.


We are, in a sense, "subsidizing" huge profits. We shouldn't do that.

"So, IS, are you prepared to accept the unemployment and dip in economic activity that will occur once we "cheap out" like the Euros?"

--Dain

Why would there be a dip in unemployment and economic activity?

Would the money everyone saves if the prices are reduced on pharmaceuticals just disappear? Maybe you won't spend the money that you save but most people probably will spend that money on other things. The economy shouldn't feel any negative net effect,





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« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2009, 09:25:30 AM »
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So, I guess you just don't have a quick (sloppy) statistic to throw at me on this one, right?

Anyway, here's Robert Barro (one of the world's most respected economists) explaining how the Canadians ride our coattails...and how we risk pharmaceutical stagnation if we followed suit.  Enjoy.  http://www.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/barro/files/bw_04_0830.pdf
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« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2009, 08:36:38 PM »
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The ECONOMIC VIEWPOINT By Robert J. Barro is totally useless.

No data whatsoever to base any conclusions on.

So let's make up some data to see how data might help.

Suppose a drug company working with an American tax-payer funded University lab develops a drug that costs (on the American market) $3/unit.

After 180 days on the market the company recovers all of its developmental costs.
This is roughly twice as long as the average.
 
Assume that the total cost of manufacturing, shipping, handling and marketing of each unit is $1.00.

The drug is sold in Canada at a lower price -- say $1.50.
Assume that 20% of the stock of the drug company is owned by Canadians.

This obviously reduces the profit rate depending on how many units are sold at the cheaper price.

How is it that the United States or the drug companies suffer from this practice? How does Barro explain the suffering? Barro might be right but he doesn't explain it very well.

I can imagine the suffering of someone who dies because he cannot afford to buy the drug. The American Tax-payer pays for most of the drug development costs. No matter how much the Canadian buyer pays, the drug companies are not going to repay those costs to us.


I can cite an abstract to an article that supports my position:

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/331/7522/958?rss=
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« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2009, 09:31:07 PM »
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That's all very nice and hypothetical, but it's far, far too rosy.  If you will read the source below, you'll find out things like only 3 out of 10 drugs brought to market actually recover their R & D costs.  America is the engine of pharmaceutical innovation, and turning into Canada will simply slow medical progress...for very little benefit (indeed, maybe for a worse situation).

http://heartland.temp.siteexecutive.com/pdf/32644x.pdf
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« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2009, 06:37:47 AM »
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I read the heartland paper -- it seems to me a bit too rosy.

Just run this Google search and read about drug companies overcharging in the U.S.

http://www.google.com/#q=overcharging+drug+companies&hl=en&start=40&sa=N&fp=48830840a98bb3c5

American Drug Companies are Great innovators?
How about "me-too drugs"?
"The U.S. Food and Drug Administration classified three-fourths of the 119 drugs it approved last year as similar to existing ones in chemical makeup or therapeutic value."

http://stanmed.stanford.edu/2005summer/drugs-metoo.html

How about addressing waste? Company A spends $$$$$ testing a chemical compound xyz. Discovers it is useless and dangerous. This is money from sales of drugs that they spent.
They keep it a secret that xyz is dangerous and useless. So, Company B, Company C, ...,Company Z each spends $$$$$$ testing xyz.

Wouldn't it make sense to require each company to disclose their findings to save us a lot of money.

The really sad thing is all the secrecy -- it is almost impossible to find any data on the drug companies -- their costs, income, research spending, .......

These are not open source companies -- they hide everything.

Take everything they and their hired lobbyists say with a sceptical eye.
They are much like the tobacco companies and the global warming deniers-- they hire the same lobbyists and "research institutes ".









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« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2009, 07:43:57 AM »
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interesting enough I am not getting any of IS' posts... why is this?
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« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2009, 08:56:58 AM »
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AW, you can read his posts if you don't log in first...strange but true.

IS, I read through a few of these things, and I'll make three points.  First, there seems to be a consensus that new drugs are expensive to develop.  I would add that drug companies really must develop "me-too" drugs because these typically serve a very very large patient-base (acid reflux, for instance).  If they don't, they may not be able to absorb the R&D costs of drugs developed for much narrower patient-bases (say, for diseases that afflict only a few dozen people out of every 100,000).  Think about it.

Second, these lawsuits are typically government suing pharma...they call that corruption.  Sure, business will cheat government because government is already corrupt and easy to cheat.  Nothing in Obamacare will change this...it will make it worse.  How easy will it be for big pharma to buy off Federal regulation...think about it.

Third, the example about Nexium being a knock-off of Prilosec doesn't impress me.  I take Prilosec.  The vast majority of doctors push non-patent drugs or generics for their patients.  Nexium makes money because doctors are sometimes forced to cycle through drugs (particularly for reflux).  For instance, I was on Axid for years, but eventually it just stopped working, so my doctor switched me to Prilosec.  When that ceases to be effective, I guess I'll be on Nexium or something else.  Thank God I have an ailment that is dirt common and is thus well-served by the market.

IS, seems like you are willing to throw away the golden goose in order to serve the interests of a very narrow group of people...the uninsured (mostly the young and the illegal).  What's really needed is a Federal insurance program for catastrophic illness, not the current program.
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