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Topic: YOU LIE! (Read 5787 times)
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YOU LIE!
« on: September 23, 2009, 08:18:09 PM »
TonyBlair
Verified Member
CTH Professor
Reputation: +54/-0
Posts: 3824
Lost in The Sunday Shuffle [Tim Graham]
The laugh-out-loud moment of Barack Obama on Sunday's Face the Nation:
Now I think that what's driving passions right now is that health care has become a proxy for a broader set of issues about how much government should be involved in our economy, particularly coming off a huge economic crisis. And the only thing that I've been trying to say is - number one,
I have no interest in increasing the size of government.
http://media.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MzEyNzM5MzY0ZjllNjMyNmU1MDdlNTRhOWUzODA5MmM=
Logged
We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald Reagan
Al Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warming
The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - Camus
The person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek
Re: YOU LIE!
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2009, 09:27:02 PM »
Ideological Sceptic
CTH Associate Professor
Reputation: +5/-41
Posts: 1519
Obama:
"I have no interest in increasing the size of government."
Why would anyone think that this is lie?
Actions result from a complex web of intentions, many of which are ancilliary to other more fundamental intentions.
General Eisenhower had no desire for Americans to be killed during the invasion of Normandy. Of course he knew many American soldiers would be killed. An invasion of France would inevitably result in the deaths of many American soldiers.
Did he intend for them to be killed? Is that one of the primary motivations he had for planning and launching the invasion-- to kill Americans?
Of course not-- killing Americans was not his intention. He had no interest in seeing Americans killed. At least, that was not his primary interest. In the same sense, we can at least, make the coherent argument that Obama has no interest in enlarging the federal government.
So, Obama may well believe that increasing spending or increasing the size of government are indespensible, necessary, and sufficient to emerge from recession. It does not follow that he sees increasing the size of government or increasing spending as anything other than hypothetical imperatives.
Other questions arise, resembling the above in that Tim Graham seems to lack the intellectual capacity to address them:
How are we measuring the size of the federal govenment?
1. Has the federal government increased in size?
a. Has the actual number of federal employees increased?
b. Has the number federal employees increased as a percentage of the total national workforce?
Are we measuring size of federal government by spending -- how much has federal spending increased?
a. in absolute terms (adjusted for inflation).
b. relative to the GDP.
c. relative to per captita DDP?
Logged
Critically and Intelligently Engage All Ideas
Ignoring ideas is Never an Option
Re: YOU LIE!
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2009, 10:31:58 PM »
Counter
Verified Member
CTH Associate Professor
Reputation: +15/-1
Posts: 1673
It depends on what the definition of "is" is.
Logged
Counter
No Coal. Know Cold.
Know coal. No cold.
Re: YOU LIE!
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2009, 07:56:42 AM »
Ideological Sceptic
CTH Associate Professor
Reputation: +5/-41
Posts: 1519
It depends on what the definition of "is" is.
Exactly.
Tim Graham is pulling the old Clinton trick and trying to mislead us.
By the way, I recall that Tim Graham used to be a frequent guest on WOSU's "Open Line" program.
I suspect that Tim Graham is not stupid - he is merely manipulative.
Logged
Critically and Intelligently Engage All Ideas
Ignoring ideas is Never an Option
Re: YOU LIE!
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2009, 07:13:01 AM »
TonyBlair
Verified Member
CTH Professor
Reputation: +54/-0
Posts: 3824
Remember this pledge?
"To reduce bills rushed through Congress and to the president before the public has the opportunity to review them, Obama "will not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House website for five days.""
And now this...
Senate Cloaks Obamacare
by Ernest Istook
You can’t read the bill because they refuse to put it in writing. And you’d better not oppose it because the government will try to muzzle you.
President Obama has consistently refused to put his details into legislative language, and now the U.S. Senate is doing the same thing.
Rather than respecting public demands for transparency, they’re figuratively spitting in the public’s face.
The “Baucus bill” is being rushed through the Senate based on an outline provided by Finance Committee Chairman Sen. Max Baucus (D-MT). The 564 amendments being considered are no better.
It’s like a jumbled pile of notes stuffed into a suggestion box. Only after Senators are asked to approve the bill in committee -- this week -- would congressional staff be asked to write it all out in full -- expected to be at least 1,500 pages. (The outline is 200 pages.)
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=33682
Logged
We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald Reagan
Al Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warming
The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - Camus
The person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek
Re: YOU LIE!
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2009, 10:27:48 AM »
Vocal Observer
Verified Member
CTH Associate Professor
Reputation: +18/-0
Posts: 1971
They can run our economy/health care and lives, but can't upload a .pdf
Don't be fooled, this technology existed prior to 2006 when I'm sure the Republicans were against it as well.
Logged
The Principle of Subsidiarity
Repeal the 17th Amendment
"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." - Th. Jefferson
Oh yea... Run Paul Run!
Re: YOU LIE!
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2009, 02:22:59 PM »
Vocal Observer
Verified Member
CTH Associate Professor
Reputation: +18/-0
Posts: 1971
What if they can't afford it? Do they get fined or subsidized?
Liberals seek health-care access for illegals
Quote
By Stephen Dinan
Fearful that they're losing ground on immigration and health care, a group of House Democrats is pushing back and arguing that any health care bill should extend to all legal immigrants and allow illegal immigrants some access.
The Democrats, trying to stiffen their party's spines on the contentious issue, say it's unfair to bar illegal immigrants from paying their own way in a government-sponsored exchange. Legal immigrants, they say, regardless of how long they've been in the United States, should be able to get government-subsidized health care if they meet the other eligibility requirements.
"Legal permanent residents should be able to purchase their plans, and they should also be eligible for subsidies if they need it. Undocumented, if they can afford it, should be able to buy their own private plans. It keeps them out of the emergency room," said Rep. Michael M. Honda, California Democrat and chairman of the Congressional Asian Pacific American Caucus.
Mr. Honda was joined by more than 20 of his colleagues in two letters laying out the demands.
Coverage for immigrants is one of the thorniest issues in the health care debate, and one many Democratic leaders would like to avoid. But immigrant rights groups and the Democrats who sent the letters say they have to take a stand now.
President Obama has said he does not want health care proposals to cover illegal immigrants. The bill drawn up by Sen. Max Baucus, Montana Democrat and chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, excludes illegal immigrants from his proposed health care exchange.
Mr. Honda and his allies, though, say illegal immigrants should be allowed to pay for insurance if they can afford it,
even if it comes through a government-established exchange. As a generally young, healthy part of the population, illegal immigrants could help reduce overall costs for those who buy into health exchange plans, the lawmakers said.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/28/liberals-seek-health-care-access-for-illegals/
Logged
The Principle of Subsidiarity
Repeal the 17th Amendment
"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." - Th. Jefferson
Oh yea... Run Paul Run!
Re: YOU LIE!
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2009, 07:07:15 AM »
TonyBlair
Verified Member
CTH Professor
Reputation: +54/-0
Posts: 3824
The Stimulus Funding Is Spent on More Bureaucrats [Veronique de Rugy]
What a surprise. According to USA Today, the stimulus money has been used to increase the number of bureaucrats in Washington.
Fourteen of the top federal agencies responsible for spending under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act say they've hired about 3,000 workers with stimulus money. That's helped fuel the continued growth of the federal government, which increased by more than 25,000 employees, or 1.3%, since December 2008, according to the latest quarterly report. During that time, the ranks of the nation's unemployed increased by nearly 4 million, Labor Department statistics show.
That sounds like a great use of our tax dollars. Just kidding. Seriously, who is suprised that the federal government would use our money to increase its size? Not me. Here is a piece I wrote with George Mason University's Garret Jones on whether stimulus money can create jobs (by that we mean: Can the government create private jobs that do not destroy other private jobs?). We say no.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YTkwMjc1MDE3MTE4MzAzMzI5NDYxNGU0YmY2ZTUyZTM=
Logged
We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald Reagan
Al Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warming
The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - Camus
The person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek
Re: YOU LIE!
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2009, 06:29:49 PM »
TonyBlair
Verified Member
CTH Professor
Reputation: +54/-0
Posts: 3824
Some Obama health care stories flawed
By CALVIN WOODWARD, Associated Press Writer Calvin Woodward, Associated Press Writer – 2 hrs 11 mins ago
WASHINGTON – One of President Barack Obama's health care "horror stories" is about a woman who, he says, lost her health insurance on the verge of breast cancer surgery because she didn't disclose a case of acne to the insurer. That's not what happened.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090929/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_fact_check_obama_s_anecdotes
Logged
We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald Reagan
Al Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warming
The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - Camus
The person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek
Re: YOU LIE!
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2009, 06:46:04 AM »
TonyBlair
Verified Member
CTH Professor
Reputation: +54/-0
Posts: 3824
Remember: "I have no interest in increasing the size of government."
http://www.youtube.com/v/oXtS2RMBukQ&rel=0
Logged
We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald Reagan
Al Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warming
The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - Camus
The person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek
Re: YOU LIE!
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2009, 10:07:01 AM »
TonyBlair
Verified Member
CTH Professor
Reputation: +54/-0
Posts: 3824
Q: Who assured the country that KSM would get "a full military trial"? [Andy McCarthy]
A: Senator Barack Obama, during the floor debate on the Military Commissions Act of 2006. See the Breitbart clip, here. [Thanks to Andrew Bostom.]
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YjVmZDQ1OThkNGE4YmEzMTQ5MDE0MjA1ZmI5NjczODI=
Logged
We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald Reagan
Al Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warming
The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - Camus
The person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek
Re: YOU LIE!
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2009, 12:42:58 PM »
Vocal Observer
Verified Member
CTH Associate Professor
Reputation: +18/-0
Posts: 1971
He should have picked his words better:
"You can take that to the bank!"
As of October 27, 2007, the first order of business will be:
PULL THE TROOPS OUT!
As of today, and likely 2012:
YOU LIE!
http://www.youtube.com/v/4LsSppYxSHk&rel=0
Logged
The Principle of Subsidiarity
Repeal the 17th Amendment
"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." - Th. Jefferson
Oh yea... Run Paul Run!
Re: YOU LIE!
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2010, 08:52:25 PM »
TonyBlair
Verified Member
CTH Professor
Reputation: +54/-0
Posts: 3824
Obama Reneges on Health Care Transparency
As a Candidate, President Obama Promised to Put Health Care Reform Negotiations on C-SPAN
By Chip Reid
(CBS) President Obama wants the final negotiations on health care reform - a reconciliation of the House and Senate versions of the bill - put on a fast track, even if that means breaking an explicit campaign promise.
"The House and Senate plan to put together the final health care reform bill behind closed doors according to an agreement by top Democrats," House Speaker Nanci Pelosi said today at the White House.
The White House is on board with that, too, reports CBS News political correspondent Chip Reid. Press Secretary Robert Gibbs stressed today that "the president wants to get a bill to his desk as quickly as possible."
During the campaign, though, candidate Obama regularly promised something different - to broadcast all such negotiations on C-SPAN, putting the entire process of pounding out health care reform out in the open. (That promise applied to the now-completed processing of forging House and Senate bills, too.)
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/06/eveningnews/main6064298.shtml
Logged
We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald Reagan
Al Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warming
The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - Camus
The person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek
Re: YOU LIE!
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2010, 08:08:31 AM »
TonyBlair
Verified Member
CTH Professor
Reputation: +54/-0
Posts: 3824
And the libtards are still hoping for change..
Obama, Top Democrats, Organized Labor Spend All Day in Private Meetings Cutting Deals [Stephen Spruiell]
Unprecedented openness and transparency:
After an unusual day-long negotiating session, President Barack Obama and top Democratic congressional leaders said late Wednesday that they were making “significant progress” towards reconciling the House and Senate health care reform bills.
Obama, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Majority Leader Harry Reid issued a statement at the close of more than eight hours of White House talks – by far the most significant, high-level negotiations undertaken during the yearlong push for health care reform. [...]
In reality, the session at the White House was a de facto conference committee, with House and Senate leaders meeting privately to hash out differences in the bill. Pelosi and Reid have been heavily criticized by Republicans for circumventing the normal conference committee process, even though much of the work under that structure also takes place behind closed doors.
Those involved in the talks sought to keep details of their progress under wraps. The negotiations delved into the Senate’s controversial tax on expensive insurance plans, which unions and House members strongly oppose, and, for a while Wednesday, labor leaders huddled privately with top administration aides.
No question about it: Obama has changed the way Washington works. Not in Tom DeLay's wildest dreams...
]http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZGU5N2QzOWMzMTY0NjYwYjU4N2Q5MWY5NzBjNzdjODE=[url]
[/url]
Logged
We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald Reagan
Al Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warming
The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - Camus
The person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek
Re: YOU LIE!
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2010, 05:54:52 PM »
TonyBlair
Verified Member
CTH Professor
Reputation: +54/-0
Posts: 3824
Barney Frank Says Multi-Million Dollar Bonuses for Government-Owned Freddie, Fannie ‘Too High’--But Nothing Can Be Done About It
By Nicholas Ballasy
(CNSNews.com) -- The Obama administration recently approved base salaries of $900,000, plus $3.1 million in deferred payments, and another $2 million in bonuses for the CEOs of the failed mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. When asked if tax dollars should pay those bonuses or if they should be cancelled, the chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.), told CNSNews.com that the bonuses were “too high” but “nothing can be done now.”
The $6-million compensation packages were approved by the Treasury Department and the Federal Housing Finance Agency, and made public on Dec. 24, 2009, Christmas Eve.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/59848
Logged
We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald Reagan
Al Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warming
The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - Camus
The person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek
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