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EducateWorthington.org

The 912 Project - Glenn Beck

912 Group of Central Ohio

Please let me know if you'd like your link added

American Woman, I'm not sure what the point of any of this is. Originally, it wasn't about the details of the incidents at the rally.
I probably pushed those details ad nauseum  (correct spelling? ).

I hope this is formatted clearly enough so you don't have to wade through everything and focus merely on what seems relevant.
Your comments in red
My replies in blue.


TonyBlair claimed: "So much for civility. I don't know the guy but I know the type like the back of my hand; a self-important, know-it-all but infinitely superior (both morally and intellectually) because of his PhD.  I'll bet he exuded obnoxiousness the moment he got there and let everybody know that he had a PhD."


My point was that this sort of ad hominem attack based on a prejudicial stereotype is unworthy of serious consideration.
Let me emphasize that TonyBlair's comments constitute an attack on Mr. Letcher. You suggest that Mr. Letcher may be a charlatan and a provocateur. If true, then attacking him would be justified. TonyBlair doesn't base his attack on this


Vocal Observer observed:

IS,

When I read your posts, I'm reminded of when Father John Corapi speaks of the Devil who turns everything upside down and the truth backwards.  You can listen to him on 1580 AM weekdays 8:00-8:45 a.m. or online at St. Gabriel Radio.


This comment struck me as really odd. I seem to confuse VO and make the what is false sound reasonable and maybe leads him to believe what is false is actually true.

He may have been simply addressing the truth of the TonyBlair's stereotype -- and was merely being critical of my view of such a stereotype. I really don't know.

------------------------


Anyway, RE-- your points about the rally and the Confrontation


AW -- I believe you make some good points here. I'll reply to those that seem to me to call for it.





Belief1. Chris Reichert tossed a dollar bills at Robert Letcher -- age 60.
AW: Easily seen on the video.


B2. Mr. Letcher has Parkinson's disease.

AW: So he claims..but again he walked over and sat right in front of me after the incident...and as an RN I did NOT see any of the usual symptoms that goes with parkinsons disease, unsteady gate, uncontrollable hand and head tremors etc. I wouldn't hav known he had parkinsons except for his sign claiming he did.

IS: interesting point. Maybe he doesn't have Parkinson's. Anyone else, without training in medical care, would have a difficult time recognizing the symptoms for any disease. If someone holds a sign reading 'I have disease x' I would, all else being equal, not question the truth of the claim. AT a political rally, I suppose it might be reasonable to question the truth of everyone and everything.

My belief that he has Parkinson's remains a tentative belief subject to change.

I suppose that there would be a certain reasonableness to treating a political actor at a political event with the sort of distain that these people used. It's all theater.

Except that he was portraying someone with a serious disease and he didn't make that differentiation between actor and character.

Even if you believe that Mr. Letcher doesn't have  Parkinson's and is just acting -- the behaviour of Mr. Reichert towards the character depicting the disease is still unacceptable behavior. Only if Reichert clearly differentiated the distinction between the actor from the character portrayed by the actor does would his behavior been acceptable.


B3. Mr. Letcher was holding a sign and seated in chair and seems to remain silent during the confrontation.


AW: He was NOT in a chair...he was on the ground, on the pavement in the side of a driveway. what you don't see is the "before video...cause convenienlty there was none of him actually walking over and sitting down

IS: Ok, he was on the ground. I amend my belief.



B4. Mr. Letcher supports healthcare insurance reform.     


AW: yes that is what he claimed in the follow up video interview with "progress Ohio" on their website.. their "exclusive interview"

IS: Well, I don't think it would be reasonable to suggest he opposes  healthcare reform and that his purpose was to undermine support for healthcare reform.

B5. Mr. Letcher said nothing to Mr. Reichert to provoke him.

AW: He really didn't have to say anything...other than his sign, and his confrontational positioning on the ground. The Anti-health care protestors...many of whom have NEVER been to a rally before were aleady emotionally excited just from the sheer numbers and proximity of being so close to big astroturf pro health care supporters like SEIU (yup even the union thughs came out for that event), the health care reform now group and AFP.. some individuals were actually heard saying... things  like " well that's all they are paying me for tmy time is up here. ..they were PAID to be there... I would bet a fine steak dinner that NO one on the anti health care side were PAID to be there.


IS: this is going well beyond anything I addressed. You claim he positioned himself confrontationally. Perhaps; obviously he wasn't sitting in his backyard. He was at the rally. He obvisouly wanted the demonstrators to see his sign and confront the issue of people in need of healthcare and healthcare reform.

So, yes, in a minimal sense, Mr. Letcher intended his presence to confront the opposing views of those at the rally. Was this minimal degree of confrontation enough to constitute a provocation? My view is that it isn't enough of a provocation to excuse Mr. Reichert's behavior.

The astroturf nature of the opposition strikes me as odd. I am a union member -- and I have attended political events supported by my union leaders . I have never heard of any payments or gifts or anything else of value or no value, given to any union member for such participation in a political event. I would take these comments as sarcasm unless strong evidence suggests otherwise.



B8. Mr. Letcher did not appear to be a wealthy man nor did he stand out as a well-educated man.


AW: I would agree with that but in the Progress Ohio website exclusive follow up vidoew they claim the man has 2 masters degress and was a professor at Cornell University....Now I have to think about that one...what individual with 2 masters degrees and a professor no less has ended up looking like a pan handler ? It doesn't bode well for the education system... spend all that money on detrees and work at a prestioious university which on e would presume would have some bang up retirement fund...what DID he do with his life during and after those degrees were earne? I've known "life-long students who are so in to their intellectual high of working on their many degrees that they lose touch with "common sense" and can't even hold down a job.


IS: Wow -- you're reading a lot into this. I had to look at the video again to see what you were talking about. I don't see a panhandler at all. He LOOKS LIKE ME. Is that scary. He's about my age -- older people look like this. Age doesn't imply panhandler. He has a white beard. He's dressed well -- that's a really nice cap he's wearing.

In any case, given the fashion these days of dressing casually and given that you can spend $200 for a pair of jeans that look beatup and stained, I would be relunctant to base any conclusions about a person's financial condition on the appearance of his clothing at a political rally.

But none of this is relevant. People are imperfect. Some are unable to function well in a complex society.

B9. Mr. Letcher did not appear to be anything other than an ordinary person.

AW: That is right...he didn't appear to be anything other than...but the sheer timeing , convenient videoing and follow up interview by Progress ohio leads me to believe otherwise.

IS: You seem to think it was all staged and that the media was in on it. Fine, maybe it was. I doubt it though. If I were involved in such a scheme, I would have arranged for a bigger and "better" confrontation than this. This was too mundane to have been planned and excuted as a political hoax. Again, more information might lead either one of us to revise our beliefs.


I don't think any of this merited the stereotyping that TonyBlair thinks is a valid criticism of Mr. Letcher.


I watched the follow up video you posted. In this 79 seconds of comments, Mr. Letcher would not particularly impress anyone with his intellectual or rhetorical skills. He probably doesn't rate being called a hero. Do you think he's suffering from dementia?


About the scrolling on the posting page -- I suggest you compose your replies using Notepad or some other simple word processor. Then copy and paste it into the reply window.

American Woman,

The title of this thread is "Smearing the Tea Party".

I wonder if you've been reading any of the posted links that TonyBlair has been putting up.

There is a distinction between criticism and a smear.
Criticism can be unfair and even false. A smear is something worse than this.
For example, calling someone a communist or comparing a person to Hitler is not just false and unfair -- it's a smear.

Are these posts evidence that the Tea Party is being smeared?

[We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald ReaganAl Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warmingThe welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - CamusThe person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek]

Rude for Reid
Sarah Palin at Saturday's Tea Party Express: "There's something not quite right when Fidel Castro comes out and says he likes ObamaCare when we don't."

By JOHN FUND

Saturday's Tea Party Express event in the hometown of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid was downplayed by much of the media -- perhaps because the only incidents of violent behavior among the large crowd seemed to come from angry supporters of Mr. Reid. Following a week in which charges and countercharges about which side in the health care debate has engaged in more objectionable rhetoric, the media's treatment of the Tea Party event in Searchlight, Nev. was curious.

CNN's Fredricka Whitfield certainly didn't think the crowd was worth much of a mention, estimating that only "hundreds of people, at least dozens of people," turned out for it. By contrast, Politco.com concluded that the event drew "as estimated 20,000 Tea Partiers" to a windswept desert lot.

Andrew Breitbart, the conservative Internet entrepreneur who was one of several speakers at the rally, says the crowd was large enough that it raised the ire of local Reid supporters. He noticed one man holding a sign directing Tea Parties in the wrong direction. When Mr. Breitbart approached to chat with the Reid supporters, he saw several throwing eggs at the Tea Party Express buses. The protesters, he says, quickly surrounded him, including one who declared: "I'm going to have to go to jail today if this guy [Breitbart] doesn't leave."

"It's unsettling to see them use threats and provocation like this," he told me. He was especially peeved at what he witnessed given what he said were the unconfirmed accusations hurled at Tea Party protestors last week in Washington, including that some had used ugly and violent language against members of the Congressional Black Caucus. On stage at the Searchlight event, Mr. Breitbart offered to donate $100,000 to charity if anyone could provide video evidence that racial epithets were used against CBC members. Mr. Breitbart says he suspects the accusations were just a cynical attempt by the left and elements of the media to "marginalize" the Tea Party movement.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304370304575151830740900748.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_MIDDLESecond

[We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald ReaganAl Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warmingThe welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - CamusThe person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek]

This sounds violent and potentially dangerous...

 Code Pinkertons Force Rove Offstage    [Daniel Foster]

Karl Rove was forced offstage by Code Pink activists at a book signing in Beverly Hills:

    About 100 Rove supporters watched Monday as Code Pink co-founder Jodie Evans walked toward him with handcuffs, calling him a war criminal and saying she was making a citizen's arrest.

    Ten protesters in all repeatedly interrupted Rove's talk at the Saban Theatre as he promoted his memoir, "Courage and Consequence: My Life As a Conservative in the Fight."

    Rove says the allegation that the Bush administration lied about weapons of mass destruction "is a pernicious political attack launched by cynical and hypocritical individuals."

    There were no arrests.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NDc5OWE3ZWI5MjgwMzNjZDdiZGJkOGI0NDMyY2VjMTc=

[We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald ReaganAl Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warmingThe welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - CamusThe person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek]

Yes, remember when, just a few short months ago, dissent was patriotic.  If hypocrisy was a crime, there wouldn't be Democratic party..

CROWLEY: Enemies of the state
Administration smears some opponents, arrests others

By Monica Crowley

During President George W. Bush's two terms, you couldn't drive far without seeing a particular bumper sticker: "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." Now that Democrats control the White House and Congress, the left treats dissent as the lowest form of treason. When the left agitates over government policies, it's considered righteous anger. When the right - and much of the center - agitate, it's painted as the rantings of the criminally and violently insane.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/31/enemies-of-the-state/

Yes, remember when, just a few short months ago, dissent was patriotic.  If hypocrisy was a crime, there wouldn't be Democratic party..

Right on Tony!

In Az they [democrats] openly call for violence against   elected republicans... No one gets arrested by Terry Goddard..[Dem.] Liberal press just sits on their hands!

How is dissent not patriotic.

How is that Democrats undervalue dissent?

Part of being rational requires taking into account rational dissenting voices.

I would argue it is rational to undervalue irrational dissent.

[We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald ReaganAl Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warmingThe welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - CamusThe person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek]

[We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald ReaganAl Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warmingThe welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - CamusThe person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek]

Some of MSDNC's best friends are black but they don't hire any...

http://www.aim.org/aim-report/olbermanns-smear-of-tea-partiers-backfires/

[We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald ReaganAl Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warmingThe welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - CamusThe person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek]

A black reporter from CNN decides to follow the Tea Party express and finds that the media has been smearing us.  But at one point he writes this:

There were a few signs that could be seen as offensive to African-Americans. But by and large, no one I spoke with or I heard from on stage said anything that was approaching racist.

COULD WE SEE A PICTURE OF THE EVIDENCE MR. TRAVIS??  WHY MAKE THE CLAIM AND THEN NOT SHOW US THE EVIDENCE?  IS IT BECAUSE YOUR INTERPRETATION OF "OFFENSIVENESS" MIGHT BE SUBJECT TO SCRUTINY?

I applaud his honesty but his subjectivity is showing...

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/07/tea.party.rallies/?hpt=Sbin

[We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald ReaganAl Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warmingThe welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - CamusThe person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek]

Remember: scum liberals will stop at nothing to smear.  It is who they are. 


Crash course: Your illustrated guide to the Tea Party saboteurs
By Michelle Malkin 

The one-year anniversary of the nationwide April 15 Tax Day Tea Party counterinsurgency is fast approaching — and publicity-seeking malefactors of all stripes want in on the spotlight.

Over the last week, conservative activists online have thoroughly exposed the loser behind an Internet call to “Crash the Tea Party.” His name is Jason Levin. To follow his trail, check Free Republic here, Canada Free Press here, and Velvet Hammer here. After failing to cover his tracks, Levin is now basking in the glow of attention on his tpartycrasher Twitter page and on his personal Twitter page (where he brags that he has hit the big time and “gone viral:”)

He’s infected alright — with an acute case of Wannabefamousitis.

Conservative blogs and talk radio have spread the word about possible shenanigans promoted by Levin, including this:

    “We will act on behalf of the Tea Party in ways which exaggerate their least appealing qualities (misspelled protest signs, wild claims in TV interviews, etc.) to further distance them from mainstream America and damage the public’s opinion of them. We will also use the inside information that we have gained in order to disrupt and derail their plans.”

Levin registered his site under a phony name on April 3, 2010. He’s just the latest in a long line of left-wing leeches and anarchist clowns trying to discredit Tea Party activism and mask their roles as agents provocateur.

Last month, it was nutballs on the rabble-rousing “Infoshop News” site. Like Levin, they tried to cover up by deleting their call to sabotage. But the fingerprints have been preserved through screen-caps and caches:

http://michellemalkin.com/2010/04/12/crash-course-your-illustrated-guide-to-the-tea-party-saboteurs/

[We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald ReaganAl Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warmingThe welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - CamusThe person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek]

Il Duce is "amused" by the little people.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/92625-obama-amused-by-tea-party-rallies

Tea Party Democrat Activists send Democrats Republicans to the hospital with broken bones.



http://biggovernment.com/jhoft/2010/04/15/photo-released-of-gop-official-and-boyfriend-beaten-bloody/

Here' s the New Orleans Police Dept report on the incident as a PDF file

http://media.nola.com/politics/other/police%20report.pdf

Show us the evidence that this was a politically motivated attack.

Sorry, I wish we could still edit our posts for a certain period of time after posting them.

Obviously, everything we do is political in the sense that post modernists will be glad to explain.

I mean political in the sense of party politics -- what indicates to use that this was motivated by Republican Party / Democratic Party rivalry?