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EducateWorthington.org

The 912 Project - Glenn Beck

912 Group of Central Ohio

Please let me know if you'd like your link added

Hello Folks,

I am writing an article for The Sentinel- its too late for the issue that comes out in a few days, but maybe it will be good for the web site or later printing.

My premis is that the conservative movement doesn't really exist at colleges. This is based on my experiences at Cypress College (Cypress, CA), University of California Irvine, and Ohio State University.

The ratio of conservatives is higher at OSU, but the actual “conservative movement” doesn’t exist at any of the colleges I have attended.  Instead, true American conservatism is replaced with 2 sects: 1) blind partisan support for big government (“compassionate”) conservatism or 2) various levels of Godless libertarianism mixed with support of neoconservative Trotskyite-like global humanitarian missions.

Somehow, the emphasis on God and family is lost in the libertarian cult of efficiency.  Sure, the free market works, but I want to use the free market to constitutionally ensure that America remains the most prosperous and economically dynamic country in the world.  Somehow, libertarians (case in point- The OSU Objectivists (http://www.theobjectivistthinkers.com) ignore the need of family and community structure. Somehow, in the libertarians mind, indulging and selfishness somehow become a virtue. Right and wrong are derived from morals which are instilled in us by God. Otherwise, how can morals be based on anything other than an arbitrary ideal of man? Morals and family should always come before profits.

As Russell Kirk put it:

 “It appears to me ladies and gentlemen that our culture labors in an advanced state of decadence. What many people mistake for the triumph of our culture actually consists of forces that are disintegrating our culture. The vaulted democratic freedom of liberal society in reality is servitude to appetites and illusions that attack religious belief, that destroy community through excessive centralization and urbanization and efface life-giving tradition."   If Russell could see what is happening to our society today.

Any way, I just wanted to run this idea past the Columbus Townhall folks. It’s rather controversial to post something as polarizing as this on The Sentinel’s blog, and any input would be most appreciated! thanks  

Many college students realize that legislators dont have the right to force their version of morality on people. Younger people are more sympathetic to gays and the desire for legal unions, and the conservatives have failed to provide a good justification for their opposition to it that doesn't include nebulous, unknowable entities such as "god" or "communal good". Additionally, I think college age students realize the hypocrisy of the war on drugs, particularly regarding marijuana, which should be legal for industrial products as well as human ingestion.

The question is, why are so many college students liberals? Because they haven't experienced the real world yet and have uninformed opinions on taxation/finance, and on the needs of national security as well. When they get real jobs they might decide the tax rate is much too high.  

Hey Joe,

If you didn't see, I didn't post this on The Sentinel site for a reason. Please keep your  repetitive platitudes out of this topic page- Muchas Gracias!

[We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald ReaganAl Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warmingThe welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - CamusThe person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek]

One of the last vestiges of my liberalism is that I don't believe in a personal, all-knowing God.  But what I did lose was my condescension toward people of faith.  I think  Christians are decent, hard working folks.  And they have my utmost respect.  They have far more tolerance than those former liberal friends of mine.  The point of all this?  I consider myself a true conservative but my morality doesn't come from the Bible (similiar conclusions can be arrived at via different ideas).  So I understand your frustration in your apparent isolation...I have yet to meet anyone who shares my hybridized beliefs.  
Keep in mind that college is time for exploration...a time for breaking with the parents belief systems.  They aren't going to settle down until they have a spouse, kids, a mortgage, etc.  Even then, with the high divorce rate, they may never settle down. I keep thinking of Churchil's phrase, "A man under 30 who is not a liberal has no heart, a man over 30 who is not a conservative has no brain."  
That said, I agree with you that liberalism seems to be growing faster and is more pernicious than it used to be.  So stick to your guns, and I will stick to mine and hopefully we can take liberalism out at the knees.

[We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald ReaganAl Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warmingThe welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - CamusThe person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek]

But I guess I avoided the libertarian questions.  I remember a post from one of the regulars at National Review's the Corner...after taking that "test" to see how libertarian you are.  Peter Robinson said "Every time I'm tempted to call myself a libertarian, I come across some libertarians."  And as I recall, you scored in the 70's where I scored in the 50's (below Luby, whereas I threatened to resign from Sentinel).  
I like the libertarians in the sense that they challenge ideas.  They also have decent economic ideas... but where I diverge is the absolutist nature of the beast.  The all or nothing approach can be daunting.  
I like conservatives and libertarians the most when they fight socialism/liberalism/communism.  I just hope the libertarians never turn their guns on me.
 

Those awful Libertarians- always against the initiation force. How dare they tell the government to stop pointing a gun at their heads?

[We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money. --Ronald ReaganAl Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warmingThe welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - CamusThe person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect. --Hayek]

Not awful...just different.  As an experiment, I would like to see all of the nation's libertarians move to a single a state (say, Ohio) and run it for a while.  I think it would be fun.  My schizophrenia sets in when I temper that with "I would be nervous about, say, all muslims or all liberals, moving to a state and running it (but if so, it would be New York or Massachusetts!).  But what the heck, let them prove themselves!

Hey Matt.. Listen here, in response to

"If you didn't see, I didn't post this on The Sentinel site for a reason. Please keep your repetitive platitudes out of this topic page- Muchas Gracias!"

did you NOT IM this to me last night?

naugdaug171: this tuesday, you mean
naugdaug171: right?
APOKALYPTISCHEN: so i dont get home from school until 6 maybe youll beat me to it
APOKALYPTISCHEN: yes the 4th
naugdaug171: http://www.columbustownhall.com/townhall/i...st=0&#entry1663
APOKALYPTISCHEN: the day you can confirm what god thinks about vertain legislation i will support you
APOKALYPTISCHEN: and its up to you to suppor.."

You have no argument. Your no different than liberals, except that they are more consistently anti freedom than you, which is why conservatives like you have been losing the battle to them by degrees for the past 100 years, surrendering American further into socialism.  

Tony Blair... you dont know how much we libertarians would love the chance to run our own state.  

["The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."]

Very interesting dialogue.  As indicated by Prime Minister Blair, conservatives are in fact not all of the same stripe.  There exists a whole panorama of perspectives amongst the conservative community, though fairly generalized sentiments and philosophical foundations.

Whether you are a conservative, a liberal, or a libertarian, human nature leads us all to believe that our own views on the world, nature, politics, culture, and theology are the appropriate views to adopt.  Those who are politically active typically show no reluctance to share their views with others. Shyness and inferiority complexes are not often manifested in the politically active.  That being the case, we tend to work at convincing others of the intellectual integrity of our worldview.  So be it.

The most fundamental question of life has to do with the existence or lack thereof of a Creator of the Universe.  The answer each of us comes up with for that question then becomes a driving force in our life.  If there exists no God, then what is the purpose of life?  Are we really just jazzed up lizards with no responsibility to anything other than our own self-interest?  Moral relativism and personal interest tend more than anything to dominate the thoughts of the atheist or agnostic individual.  If God does in fact exist, and I believe that with absolute certainty, it would behoove us both individually and collectively to reach that intellectual conclusion and respond accordingly.  If the traditional Judeo-Christian theologies do in fact impart to us the most fundamental realities of the universe, then it is all too obvious that we should strive to understand His expectations of us and focus on bringing them to fruition in the living of our lives, and the positions we adopt on the issues of the day.  

Conservatives, while not in universal agreement, tend in general to be persons of faith, and their theology serves as the moral compass in formulating their views.  Those without faith do not enjoy the benefit of being able to fall back on this compass in determining which side of an issue warrants their support.  Some are fortunate enough to be capable of making judicious judgements despite their lack of faith, though most don't seem capable of overcoming this obstacle.

Liberals tend not to apply any theological values to the stances they take on an issue, but rather are more influenced by the pragmatic political implications of which side of an issue they support.  Kerry, Kennedy, Pilosi, and Daschle, all Catholics, exemplify this phenomenon.  They might have been baptized and brought up in one variation or another of a Catholic life, but they are incapable of letting their faith guide them in their views on the abortion issue.  As a Catholic myself, their positions are incomprehensible and evil.  They better hope there exists no God.

The existence or nonexistence of God, for every human being, should be an important question to be answered.  Personally, I know that the evidence favoring an affirmative perspective is out there, and can be studied and reflected on by anyone with an interest in pursuing the truth of the matter.  Nobody will make you do that....you must possess a desire for knowing the truth, and a commitment to your own eternity to pursue it.

Well we just might get our shot. In New Hampshire, they are starting a "Free State Project" where Libertarian minded individuals all move to New Hampshire to bring back freedom and to get out of what is considered mainstream Amercian ideologies. The whole attempt is to get the opportunity to bring freedom back and to prove to the world that yes, freedom does work (not that it should matter whether freedom "works" or not- allowing freedom is the only moral way a government should operate).

Dear Matt and the Gang,

It is true that Libertarians are often thought of as godless, but I have come to see this is just another stereotype.  It's unfortunate that you did not come to our State Convention last weekend.  One of our speakers was Dr. Eric Schansberg, an economist from Indiana University Southeast.

Dr. Schansberg is the author of "Turn Neither to the Right Nor the Left : A Thinking Christian's Guide to Libertarianism".  I'll give you the Amazon link:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=glance&s=books

Dr. Schansberg's contention is that Christianity is at heart very libertarian.  In his presentation he gives the example of a conservative minister from the south who carried around a sign saying "God Hates Fags".  He asks the question, "Is this something Jesus would have done?"

Libertarians don't think hard drugs are safe.  We don't think every must accept homosexual lifestyles.  We don't think everything goes.  But we do think the government has no business moralizing and that personal responsibility is the key to living a morally righteous life, and so did Jesus in the Gospels.  Dr. Schansberg says that when we as Christians look toward government as the arbiter of what is moral, we are actually ignoring God and his Church and idolizing our own imperfect creation, government.  When we ask the government to condemn immorality, we are ignoring the teachings of Jesus.  "Judge not, lest ye be judged."  "Let he without sin cast the first stone."  

Dr. Schansberg asks Christian Libertarians to ask themselves the Jesus test.  "What would Jesus have done?"  Is there a single instance anywhere in the Bible where Jesus recommends the government get involved to stop sinful acts or recommends changes in the law?  Is there any instance where Jesus uses his Godly power to change someone's free will and impose his own?  Quite the contrary, there are many passages where Jesus states that the law of man, and the law of God are separate, and rightfully so.  God gave man free will, who is George Bush or John Kerry to take it away?  

The book is great and explains these ideas much better than I do.

 

 

["The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."]

A strategic vision is now forming in my mind.

First, we support the Libertarian goal of populating and running the state of New Hampshire.  But if it falls apart, they have to stay there.

Second, we draft all Liberals into NASA service, and let them colonize the moon, every last one of them, again with no return privileges.  They could then work hard to destroy an entire planet.  The moon's pretty close though.  Perhaps Mars would be better.

Then Prime Minister Tony Blair's motto, "Imagine No Liberals" could at long last be brought to fruition.

[Edmund Burke]

We mustn't be too hard on our Libertarian brethren.  They are simply confused -- they imagine a kind of social laissez-faire...none has ever existed of course, and none can.  But like their anarchic cousins, they prefer to live in a world of utterly consistent philosophy, and the real world be damned.

Eventually we can only hope they will wake up and understand that individual life isn't possible without society, and society is a collective phenomenon that can only exist using a combination of voluntarism and coercion (anyone who lives in a family with children should know this).  The question that really matters is not whether government should intervene in civil society...it will and in fact must (on occasion).  What really matters is how big will be the machinery of government, who will control that machinery, and to what ends.    

Hey you state your ideals perfectly. I am against force. You are not. Your real world is immoral. Mine is free.