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Topic: Columbus Smoking Ban  (Read 1484 times)
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« on: June 11, 2004, 04:37:11 PM »
RobertButler Offline
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As you may be aware, Columbus is considering the strictest smoking ban in the country.

Health issues aside, this ban would tell private property owners what they can or can not allow on their property.  

There are already voluntary smoke-free restaurants in Columbus, and these restaurants actually increased their revenue.  Those who have a problem with smoke should patronize these restaurants that prohibit smoking.  The free market can and should decide how many restaurants should be smoke free, not government.

Maybe this is an issue we can work together on.  There will be 3 critical meetings this month in the city council.  Please contact me if you wish to support the cause of property rights in Columbus.

 
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In Liberty,

Robert Butler

Chair
Libertarian Party of Delaware County
www.lpdel.org
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2004, 07:27:29 PM »
TonyBlair Offline
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Yeah, count me in.  This is crap.  Just ask the citizens of NYC.
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We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money.  --Ronald Reagan

Al Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warming

The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - Camus

The person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect.  --Hayek
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2004, 11:21:49 PM »
OldWine Offline
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Having recently returned from a trip to Florida where a ban exists state-wide, I couldn't agree more.    Best solution, in my view as a smoker, would be to require restaurants and similar establishments, to either allow smoking or not, their choice.   This would allow market forces to reign, as they should in a free, capitalist society,
« Last Edit: June 11, 2004, 11:46:25 PM by OldWine » Logged
OldWine

Old enough to know better and still young enough to resist the wiles of the DemoNazis.
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2004, 11:34:57 PM »
dain Offline
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Oldwine's idea is a good one...government shouldn't be involved in regulating the environment in private establishments.  Restaurants and the like should have the option of being smoke-free or smoking.  The market's plenty big enough to accommodate both.

But does anyone have any good (and humane) ways of discouraging smoking?  I'm an ex-smoker, and certainly a fairly tolerant one, but the weed is no damned good.  
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"Men are qualified for civil liberties in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites....Men of intemperate minds cannot be free." [/i][/font] Edmund Burke
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2004, 09:52:39 AM »
TonyBlair Offline
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Yes, it's bad for you...but these bans are based on the idea that second hand smoke is deadly....which is pure bunk.  Obnoxious but not deadly.  Read Secondhand Smoke Scam
Plus, this ban is for ALL public places...inside or out....except for a handful of spots.  Following that logic, let's ban fatty foods next because they are more dangerous.
Read today's Dispatch on it.
 
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We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money.  --Ronald Reagan

Al Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warming

The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - Camus

The person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect.  --Hayek
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2004, 03:17:30 PM »
RobertButler Offline
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I'm planning a rally and Gary Nolan will be here as well.  There are three key dates.  Two public hearings and one planned vote this month.  I'm not in my office right now, but I think it's the 16th, the 23rd, and the 28th.  The more the merrier.

I'll confirm these dates on Monday, they are on the columbus website.  There's also an email and a hotline for voter comments.

 
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In Liberty,

Robert Butler

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Libertarian Party of Delaware County
www.lpdel.org
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2004, 09:04:14 AM »
TonyBlair Offline
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Here's a list of articles that can be used for ammo:

Smoke and Mirrors
http://www.techcentralstation.com/040204A.html

Post-Reductio America
http://www.techcentralstation.com/111903A.html

Does Eliminating Secondhand Smoke Cut Heart Attack Rates?
http://www.skepticism.net/articles/2003/000011.html

Kicking Butt
http://www.techcentralstation.com/041103M.html

Second Hand Joke
http://www.techcentralstation.com/050704C.html

Judge Smokes Out Tobacco Lie
http://www.junkscience.com/news2/zion.htm
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We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money.  --Ronald Reagan

Al Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warming

The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - Camus

The person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect.  --Hayek
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2004, 03:01:50 PM »
TonyBlair Offline
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The more I read about this thing, the more pissed off I get.  I downloaded the Smoke Free Indoor Air Act of 2004, and it is filled with lies.

For example, it says
Quote
WHEREAS ,in the past twenty-five years more than 1,000 papers and studies have been published about secondhand smoke demonstrating severe and pervasive injury to those exposed;

This is completely untrue...the correlation is weak at best BECAUSE NOT ONE STUDY PUBLISHED ON THIS HAS MEASURED THE AMOUNT OF SECONDHAND SMOKE EXPOSURE.  I also question (but can't prove) the 1,000 papers figure.  
Quote
WHEREAS ,the United States Centers for Disease Control states that between 38,000 and 62,000 non-smoking
Americans die every year from exposure to secondhand smoke

This is an absolute lie.  The CDC references the EPA's number of 3,000 lung cancer deaths.  That number itself is a lie because of fudged statistics (and was thrown out by a federal judge years ago...read Judge Smokes Out Tobacco Lie.  
It "estimates" that 35,000 total from secondhand smoke.  But that number included deaths from heart disease which is dubious at best because of a laughably small sample size (Does Eliminating Secondhand Smoke Cut Heart Attack Rates?

But remember, the CDC also says stuff like: "There is no safe level of exposure to a cancer-causing substance."

Time for my Dean-like YEARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGHHH!
« Last Edit: June 13, 2004, 03:46:31 PM by TonyBlair » Logged
We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money.  --Ronald Reagan

Al Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warming

The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - Camus

The person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect.  --Hayek
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2004, 12:32:33 PM »
RobertButler Offline
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There is no safe level of exposure to Bill Clinton, but he still circulates in public.
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In Liberty,

Robert Butler

Chair
Libertarian Party of Delaware County
www.lpdel.org
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2004, 12:56:29 PM »
RobertButler Offline
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Dear Libertarians and Friends,

Columbus is preparing to pass the most restricitive smoking ban in the US.  It bans all indoor smoking except for private residences and 20% of hotel rooms.  Outdoor smoking is also banned within 20 feet of a restricted area.  This means even restaurant patios are off limits.

Please show your support for our restaurant, hotel, and tavern owners by coming to City Hall June 16th and June 23rd at 5:00PM.  Please feel free to make and bring signs.  Remember that this is a property rights issue, not a health issue.
The vote will probably take place on May 28th.  Be there.

The following press release is going out today:

Press Release
For Immediate Distribution
Contact Information:
Robert Butler, Executive Director
700 Morse Rd. Suite 208   
Columbus, Ohio  43214-1879
(614) 547-0290   
hq@lpo.org

Libertarians Mobilize Against Clean Air Ordinance
Talk Show Host Gary Nolan to Speak

The Libertarian Party is standing with Ohio’s restaurant and tavern owners against the proposed Clean Air Ordinance during this week’s public hearing in Columbus.  They are the only political party to support the business owners on this issue.

“If this ordinance passes, businesses in Ohio will suffer yet another regulatory defeat,” notes Jason Hallmark, Libertarian State Chair. “Smoking bans reduce income and jobs for restaurants, hotels, and taverns.  Just look at what’s happened in Toledo.”

The Columbus City Council has scheduled public hearings on June 16th and June 23rd at 5:30PM.  Ohio Libertarians will hold a rally outside City Hall at 5:00PM with Cleveland talk show host and former Presidential candidate Gary Nolan.

“First, a business owner has a right to allow legal activity in his place of business.  Smoking is not against the law.  Second, there are plenty of restaurants who have voluntarily banned smoking.  Non-smokers should support these businesses, not force others to conform,” states LPO Executive Director Robert Butler.  “Republicans say they support small business and are against regulation, but they have either remained quiet or have actively supported smoking bans.”

Numerous studies, including a recent report from the University of Chicago published in the New England Journal of Medicine, show no relation between cancer or heart disease and second-hand smoke.
 
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In Liberty,

Robert Butler

Chair
Libertarian Party of Delaware County
www.lpdel.org
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2004, 02:57:33 PM »
RobertButler Offline
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Dear CT members,

There is a meeting tonight at 7PM against the smoking ban at the Garden Inn aka Mr. Biggs, 6091 Cleveland Ave., about a mile south of 270.

Former Libertarian Presidential candidate and radio talk show host Gary Nolan will be there.

At the very least you can sit down and have a beer (and a smoke) with a man on the no-fly list and ask him about terrorism.

A recent article in the Dispatch reported that the average waiter in Toledo lost about $50 in tips per shift after they passed their ban.  And numerous taverns closed down.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2004, 02:59:49 PM by RobertButler » Logged
In Liberty,

Robert Butler

Chair
Libertarian Party of Delaware County
www.lpdel.org
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2004, 11:51:17 AM »
RobertButler Offline
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Just a reminder that today is the second public hearing on the smoking ban, and we'll be there again.

Monday is supposed to be the vote.

 
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In Liberty,

Robert Butler

Chair
Libertarian Party of Delaware County
www.lpdel.org
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2004, 11:45:01 AM »
RobertButler Offline
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Here is my speech from last night.  Anti-ban folks are welcome to come to Scottie MacBean's on 4675 N High Street in Clintonville at 3PM Sunday.

Text of Robert Butler's Testimony to the Columbus City Council, June 23, 2004

Proposed Smoking Ban Ordinance

     My name is Robert Butler.  I am Executive Director of the Libertarian Party of Ohio.  We are the only political party here today speaking in favor of small business and against this proposed smoking ban.

     Not one of the business people I've spoken with is in favor of this ban.  It is a very underhanded tactic that you have chosen to use.  This surprise attack on small business people is a horrible injustice.  Adding insult to injury, you have used our own tax dollars in planning this ban.

     Many restaurants and bars already have voluntary smoking bans.  They do this to please their customers.  Business people can and will regulate themselves according to what their customers ask for.  This is how the free market works.

     Here in the United States, the land of the free, businesses are so over-regulated that they are forced to relocate to outside the United States.  Ohio is ranked 33rd in its friendliness to small business.  Every day this City Council wonders why businesses and jobs are leaving Ohio.  Well, these regulations are the reason why.

     It is particularly unfortunate that our community's young people are shamelessly used to take our rights away.  I will teach my daughter that she is responsible for her own health, not the government.  

     I just recently moved to Ohio.  And I noticed something here in Columbus that troubles me.  I see block after block of empty houses and empty store fronts.  This City Council believes it knows best in how to run our lives.  The Libertarian Party trusts people enough to take control and regulate themselves according to the free market.  The difference is clear.  We are the true political party fighting for the little guy, for the small businessman.  And if this smoking ban passes, we will fight to make sure a new City Council is elected next year.
 
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In Liberty,

Robert Butler

Chair
Libertarian Party of Delaware County
www.lpdel.org
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2004, 11:54:50 AM »
TonyBlair Offline
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Ausgezeichnet!  Well done!  I still encourage everyone to use the link in the above post to let them know how you feel on this one.  If they win here, imagine what will be next.....
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We could say [Democrats] spend money like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors. It would be unfair, because the sailors are spending their own money.  --Ronald Reagan

Al Gore didn't invent the internet, he invented global warming

The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - Camus

The person who advocates government planning of the economy always assumes that it is his plan that will be put into effect.  --Hayek
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2004, 12:59:00 PM »
MarathonMan Offline
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Good speech, Robert, except for the plugs for your party.   The on-topic comments were well stated.  City Council will in all probability, and despite all pressure to the contrary, pass this ban.  It's a perfect fit for their individual and collective liberal perspectives.  They have no fear of being thrown out of office, as they have been firmly in control of the city for quite a while now.
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."   -    Edmund Burke
 
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