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EducateWorthington.org

The 912 Project - Glenn Beck

912 Group of Central Ohio

Please let me know if you'd like your link added

Opinion/ Letter to Editor
For Immediate Distribution
Contact Information:
Robert Butler, Executive Director
700 Morse Rd. Suite 208
Columbus, Ohio 43214-1879
(614) 547-0290
hq@lpo.org

Toledo Gets Tough on "Crime"

The City of Toledo has some interesting priorities. Murder and forcible rape are double the national average. Robberies are three times the national average. But here's a note for you criminals, don't get caught smoking.

While crime rates soar in Toledo, the police force is quickly rounding up all cigarette smokers in area taverns and restaurants.

Herb Betz, son of Lil Sheba's owner Thelma Betz, said two uniformed officers and four plain-clothed officers entered the bar at 1380 West Alexis Rd. about 7:30 p.m., during the lunch break for GM Powertrain employees from across the street.

"When they came in, all the lunch crowd left," Mr. Betz said. "They came in like we were being raided for drugs. I've got a whole pan of chicken that's going to go to waste."

Ohio is ranked 33rd in the nation for friendliness to small business. Our factories are forced to pack up and move overseas. Ohioans are underemployed. All of this is due to government regulations stifling business. When are our lawmakers and enforcement personnel going to realize the harm done to society? Let's focus on crimes like murder, rape, and robbery. After the police have these things under control, then they might be bored enough to harass cigarette smokers.

Full Story from Toledo Blade:

Toledo police issued six citations for violations of the city's anti-smoking ordinance last night during a raid on a North Toledo bar.

Herb Betz, son of Lil Sheba's owner Thelma Betz, said two uniformed officers and four plain-clothed officers entered the bar at 1380 West Alexis Rd. about 7:30 p.m., during the lunch break for GM Powertrain employees from across the street.

Five customers were ticketed for smoking, and a bartender was cited for allowing smoking in violation of the ordinance, Mr. Betz said.

Toledo police Sgt. Mark Taylor confirmed that five customers were ticketed but said the report from the raid made no mention of an employee being cited. Kerry Robinson, the bartender, confirmed she had received a ticket.

"When they came in, all the lunch crowd left," Mr. Betz said. "They came in like we were being raided for drugs. I've got a whole pan of chicken that's going to go to waste."

Although sweeps performed by city Environmental Services agents have been well publicized, police Chief Michael Navarre said last night the police department has been conducting smoking enforcement on an occasional basis for about a month. Such operations have been assigned to the directed patrol unit as a low-priority task, he said.

"I did want them to start hitting some places where we've been getting a lot of complaints," the chief said. "We've done it without fanfare - if there were TV crews there, I told them to keep on going. We're kind of caught in the middle - it's not a top priority, but we're not going to allow them to thumb their noses at us."
 

Pardon me, sir, but I don't think you should criticize them for their obsession with smoking policy. Not to say that I think its right or wrong, I'm just pointing out that you spend an awful lot of time on the subject as well, considering all of the other issues at hand. It just strikes me as a bit ironic is all.

:angry: Gotta love the smoking Nazis.  

This smoking ban is ridiculous and I'm sick of seeing things like this just sail through city councils and state legislatures.

I didn't notice any comments on the Columbus City Council's leash law "debate" on this site.  It's another example of just merrily marching down the road to government meddling into personal behavior.  It's a damned foregone conclusion that they're going to implement a leash law despite the fact that none of the data available shows it's an issue or that the law will address the underlying concern.  The biggest issue is stray animals and that doesn't get affected by leash laws.  

My thinking is that governments, at all levels, should address issues in order of importance.  I found some crime stats for Toledo online (for 2002) and that city is above the national average in crimes per 100,000 people in the following categories:

Overall Crime Index*
Murder
Forcible Rapes
Robberies*
Aggravated Assaults
Burglaries*
Largency/Theft
Motor Vehicle Thefts*
(* more than double the national average) :unsure:

Facing THAT type of crime, shouldn't the local police force and government be more than able to find something productive to do with their time?  

And how about our very own hometown, Columbus?  What's our crime?  Well, in the above categories we're double the national average in EVERY CATEGORY except aggravated assaults!   And faced with THAT, city council wants to add policing bars for smokers and city parks for dogs playing fetch?  What in the H#@! are they thinking?  

Seems to me that they're having trouble doing their job at the moment and adding to their responsibilities is non-sensical.  (ps I do not fault the police for the above, I'm sure if they had the leadership and resources they would do better)

Doesn't that make anyone else mad?  

I see your point, Grimner.  But I don't agree.

I'm not the type to see slippery slopes everywhere I look, but in this case, I do.

I'm not from central Ohio, I'm from Massachusetts.  You have no idea the lengths to which local and state government can get intertwined in your life.  No offense, but if you haven't lived in a perpetually liberal area of the country, you don't know.  (I know that sounds insulting and confrontational, but it is NOT the intent.  I just couldn't come up with a nicer way to put it although I mean in a nice way.  not trying to insult or condescend in any way)

People joke about "next they'll ban fatty foods" but anyone catch New Jersey statewide ban on restaurants serving over-easy eggs?  It happened.  Anyone lived in a state that requires you get your car inspected every year?  It's a total racket.  Anyone live in a town that mandates how you dispose of your trash?  Let me expand on that one because it's NICE!

My hometown has a town dump.  They sell town-approved trash bags (light blue with the town seal) that can be thrown in the dump.  Each bag costs FIVE DOLLARS.  You read it right, their a bit bigger than a tall kitchen bag and they cost five dollars each.  The thing is, you can throw away recyclables for free if you separate them and sort them, but your trash costs you $5 a bag.  How's that for meddling?

Or we could have Ohio slip into an excise tax on motor vehicles.  What do we pay for plates every year?  50 bucks a car?  How about having a tax assessed every year based on the blue book value of your car?  Welcome to Maryland! (and a number of other states)  They charge thousands per car per year in tax.

Or vehicle inspections every year?  Emission testing, safety testing?  "Looks like your ball joints are going bad, gonna have to replace them or else I can't give you a sticker?"  My uncle had a car that had a wee-little crack in the corner of the windshield, rock chip turned crack, maybe 3 inches long and hairline thin.  Had to have his windshield replaced to get his sticker.

 

Don't worry about it CBartony, you've just been in the dark is all. This is far from the first time Mr. Butler's brought it up, and I was pointing out that these police officers weren't the only ones being a little obsessive Don't worry about it, reread my first post and you can tell I never mentioned my own views on the issue, which would be for the most part against smoking bans.  

The reason I bring it up so much is because people keep repeating, chanting, and singing about how America is a free country.

You're only free to do what govt. decides is OK, that's possibly security (i doubt it),  but it's certainly not freedom.

Maybe you think smoking is trivial.  I agree.  That's why it is so disturbing.  We're slowly losing control of every aspect of our lives.

Maybe you ought to phrase it more carefully, your first post sounded like an accusation against those in Toledo, saying that they are focusing too much on the issue when there are so many others to worry about. If its so trivial, leave it alone after the first topic. If you are really concerned just with the premise of losing control, start a thread listing many recent examples of that sort of behavior, rather than focusing all of your energies around one instance of it. We know you're opposed to the smoking ban, a lot of us are too, but the longer you hover on it the more convinced outsiders become that you're opposed only because you smoke; and due to your political status, they'll associate that with the Libertarian party as a whole.

People are going to do these things, look at alcohol, prostitution, and there are many others where the community wanted to get rid of habits that it felt reflected badly on its people. I can understand why people want to cut back smoking, though I agree that there ought to be a choice when it comes to private property. As far as limiting rights, I agree that these measures that restrict smoking are too strict, but the anger of this can't be directed toward the government really. The people of Columbus put the officials where they are, they represent the interests of its citizens. Just because people put their faith in you doesn't make you an evil control freak.

I guess to summarize, I agree with you on this issue, but some of our values are a bit different, myself believing whole heartedly that a governing body does create security, though it does need to be kept in check.  

The Libertarian Party of Ohio has decided to make this a major issue for next year's municipal elections.

We have other issues where the little guy gets slammed like Eminent Domain abuse.  We went to Cincinnati to help the Norwood people.  They're being thrown out of their homes by the govt. to build a bigger mall.

This Toledo smoking ban cost waiters and waitresses a $1,000 per month in lost tips, and those are the people who still have their job.  More than a dozen taverns have gone out of business in the year since the smoking ban.  I've spoken with many business people and I assure you that this topic will remain a serious issue for the 2005 election cycle.

Hmm...were I you, I'd drop the tips argument, tips aren't official anyway, it all depends on the opinion of the customer. While that's a sad story for the waiters and waitresses, I just think its a bit too indirect for you to use it legitimately. No smoking put the patrons in a bad mood, but it was the patrons who decided to give less generous tips, not any government official.

Ohio is ranked 33rd in the nation for friendliness to small business. Our factories are forced to pack up and move overseas. Ohioans are underemployed. All of this is due to government regulations stifling business. When are our lawmakers and enforcement personnel going to realize the harm done to society? Let's focus on crimes like murder, rape, and robbery. After the police have these things under control, then they might be bored enough to harass cigarette smokers.

I have a few problems with this. The first is that governmental regulations are both good and bad for the market. An example of how it hurts us is this, personal preferences not being met in public places. It hurts business, that's a problem. On the other hand, you can't tell me people go over seas because of regulations. You make more money if you branch out, its a risk but if you establish a public interest in another country, well that's a huge market you've just opened up and at least in the beginning you're all clear to establish a strong foundation for your product line and get the upper hand on the competition. Building a factory in Mexico provides much cheaper labor, and therefore makes more money. The reason you build where its cheap isn't because of current regulations on our market, its more complicated than that. In fact your helping the economy by going overseas in many instances.

As far as murder, rape and robbery, well let me ask you this: All of these crimes are pretty serious, and for the most part you learn about them after the fact. Now regardless of how observant you are, without completely invading people's privacy you aren't going to be able to devote enough attention to solving these problems to be there on the spot and always be successful in getting rid of individual cases, so you have to change the environment that causes them. The best way to correct a problem is to prevent it from happening, and most petty criminals have a drug addiction to feed. You tighten the drug regulations, the chances of criminal activity both petty and serious fall. So in a sense, they are attacking the issues of murder, rape, and robbery as effectively as they can without infringing on people's rights any more than they have to.    

As a good example from here in Columbus, there was a rapist on the loose for 20 years.  He was raping women for 20 years.  He could have been captured 10 years ago, but they didn't have money for the DNA test.

They didn't have the  money to catch a serial rapist, but they have the money to chase smokers?  That's what they'll be doing here in Columbus next month.

[Edmund Burke]

Agreed, the priorities are screwed up!  But, Mr. Butler, you should be complaining about forensics funding rather than the smoking ban.  Perhaps the reason why priorities are screwy is the overly individualistic view of polity.  People are so focused on their personal rights and personal health that they'd spend time, effort and public money on an anti-smoking campaign (and on anti-anti smoking campaign).

The politicians go were the passion is...and if it ain't in forensics, etc., whose fault is that? I think Grimnir has a good point.

Mind you, neither he (I guess) nor I disagree with your overall point.